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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
435
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Posted - 2014.03.25 11:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
The stupidity of some people... I'ts almost enough to inspire sympathy. Almost.
But yeah I agree, seize Erotica1's assets and ban the accounts, just to hear HIM rage and cry. Hell, I'd pay money for that delicious recording. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
435
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 11:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:You are just the gift that keeps on giving, aren't you, my little homophobic mispeller? I'm not homophobic in the least :) Many of my best friends are homosexual.
By bent, I obviously mean "crooked".
And there is no such word in the English language as "mispeller". DING! |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
436
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Posted - 2014.03.25 11:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Just seize the accounts and ban him.
I mean honestly, I can appreciate some "for teh lols" as much as the next guy, but if you play that recording to any reasonably sensible people in a room, or for example outloud at the next Fanfest for the combined community represented there, I think the majority will most certainly agree that this is crossing the line too far.
Here is the recording linked in the blog: https://soundcloud.com/kalorned/erotica1bonusroom_sohkar |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
436
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Posted - 2014.03.25 11:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:
By bent, I obviously mean "crooked".
No such word as crooked. And I find the assertation that you have friends to be highly dubious.
Synonyms for bent
angled arced arched bowed contorted crooked
I have many friends :) Would you like to be one? Sorry, DENIED!
Sentamon wrote:Dude is freaking out over $20? Hopefully he sees a mental health professional. If you think its the 20bucks he's freaking over, and not how he is being treated, it might be you who hopefully sees a mental health professional. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
436
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 12:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:I have no interest in being the friend of anyone, much less someone who defends the terminally stupid and demands the intelligent should be made to suffer for it.
However, Chirba has spoken, and so thats the end of it.
Are you implying the antagonists in this recording are "intelligent" or made to suffer?
HAH!
Just ban them. Nobody will miss them and the majority of the community will certainly agree with it. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
438
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Posted - 2014.03.25 12:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Chirba has spoken, and so thats the end of it. Yes. And he's spoken against this kind of behavior being acceptable.
Just ban these people. Nobody will miss them. These kinds of things are not something you want the wider global gaming community nor the wider internal EVE community hearing about or thinking you are supporting.
If something is happening in or related to the game that cannot conceivably with good conscience be played over speakers or depicted graphically at a Fanfest, it goes without saying that it exceeds what is permissable in EVE. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
438
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Posted - 2014.03.25 12:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Look up the world slander.
You need to look up the word "slander" Slander is spoken, libel is written.
Furthermore if you seriously think that if this recording is played before a jury or a judge, that they will find it acceptable, you need to stop playing EVE for a bit and realise the wider human context here. No judge or jury would find in favor of the harassers in this case. No matter if it happens "ingame", which it technically does not, or without it. Infact this fits the criteria of external influences impinging on the in-game autonomy of individuals playing the game as stipulated in various EVE policies.
Its a law suit just waiting to happen and a media disaster.
If you play this at a Fanfest over the speakers I leave the possible reaction to your own imagination. People walking out en masse, tremendous negative media for the game, and a more or less unilateral demand that the persons involved in this and other related incidents be removed from the game forthwith. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
441
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Posted - 2014.03.25 12:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP can ban whoever they want, whenever they want.
Play this out loud on speakers at the next Fanfest. Title it as "Emergent Gameplay" and proudly present in audio as an example of the finest EVE currently has to offer.
I double dare you. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
441
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 12:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Send this and other recordings to Wired, PCGamer and other gaming/virtual related sites and productions.
They'll have a field day printing bad press all over this. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
442
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Posted - 2014.03.25 12:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Listen, Sohkar is my Alliance.
He got what he deserved.
If I wasnt being restrained he'd have got more.
End of.
I can give you what you deserve. Do you want it? |
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Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
442
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Posted - 2014.03.25 12:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Hands up everyone who can see a problem
Hands up everyone who thinks Erotica1 should be banned for this horrific conduct.
My hand is raised. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
445
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Posted - 2014.03.25 12:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Love to have you. Out of game. Just as the recording was :) |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
449
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Posted - 2014.03.25 12:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Just ban Erotica1. Will not be missed and CCP is completely within its rights to do so.
Failing that, play this recording out loud at the next FanFest and see what the assembled community actually thinks of this.
Your choice.
Banning Erotica1 does the entire game and community a boon. Its just one less sub. Who cares. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
449
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Posted - 2014.03.25 12:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:That could be seen as incitment to riot. Why on earth would it be that?
Because people will be so disgusted by it that they leave the event?
Yes, I agree. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
450
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Posted - 2014.03.25 12:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Perhaps one day I will open a newspaper and read an article about how a disgruntled player hunts down and murders a player infamously known for griefing. Or, hopefully not, an article about how a disgruntled player upset by how he/she perceives the community/company to have treated him at large, and go AWOL at a Fanfest.
These are potential risks you know. Should be careful how far you push people and what you allow.
We already had the suicidal guy in the Mittani incident. Not like this kind of thing is not without precedent. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
450
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Posted - 2014.03.25 13:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Perhaps one day I will open a newspaper and read an article about how a disgruntled player hunts down and murders a player infamously known for griefing. I've mentioned this before, but I was actually stalked at one point by someone I "griefed" in a videogame. They sent me a link with a picture of my front door on it. How do you feel about that?
I think you should be very careful how you choose to treat people. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
452
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Posted - 2014.03.25 13:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The funny thing is that it probably burns you to know that this doesn't happen. Why would that burn me. And why would it be funny.
Get a grip on your nonsense. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
452
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Posted - 2014.03.25 13:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Lol, "blaming the victim", right out of the mouth of a White Knight himself. Delicious. I didnt blame you.
You asked how I felt about it. I felt that if someone is taking photos of your home, you should probably be very careful how you treat them.
Reread what I said :)
I know its hard, and that you have an agenda here and its very very important to you though this is all just a game. But TRY to read accurately. Otherwise, you come off as an idiot :)
But yes, if youve deliberately managed to **** someone off that is so mentally unstable as to actually find out where you live, then I think you done f****d up, and its your own fault.
Not my problem. You did it yourself. Don't cry when the **** you've done suddenly turns up on your own doorstep to bite you back. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
452
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Posted - 2014.03.25 13:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The above highlighted sentence is many times more morally reprehensible than anything any in-game scammer has ever done. There is never any justification for out of game threats, period.
Nope.
Why should I care if someone YOU have pissed off and driven over the edge shows up at your doorstep?
Its not my problem. I didn't **** them off. Its not my doorstep they are at, and its you who are responsible for your own actions in pissing them off.
Thats how the world works, deal with it. Dont come crying to me when your someone actually comes after you for conduct you yourself are responsible for in the first place. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
452
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Posted - 2014.03.25 13:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Blaming the victim.
You are blaming the victim in the recording.
Checkmate.
Your propaganda department really needs to fire the 3-4 of you. You aren't any good at this at all.
If the guy you where griefing deliberately found out where you live and comes after you, that is neither my problem, my responsibility, a result of anything I have done, or any of my ****s. Its your problem and one you have directly been involved in escalating due to your own choices. |
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Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
455
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Posted - 2014.03.25 13:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
Same thing as you blaming the victim in the recordings.
Sorry, you cant have it both ways.
Checkmate, again.
If someone shows up at your house as result of you deliberately humiliating and griefing them, thats your own fault. Dont come crying to me when I read about in the papers. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
455
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 13:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
Not my problem or fault if you poke, prod, humiliate and grief people who might turn out to be mentally unstable individuals who suddenly might show up IRL in your face, doorstep or an event you are attending.
Im not responsible for your actions, or theirs.
Ill just read about it in the papers and think to myself "Well, they had it coming. Bound to happen sooner or later". |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
458
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Posted - 2014.03.25 13:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:And revelling in others misfortune, thats pretty hypocritical right there.
Oh. You mean like Erotica1 revelling in the misfortune of his victims?
Hows that for hypocrisy now?
Im losing count of checkmates here :D |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
461
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Posted - 2014.03.25 13:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:So, you literally just set yourself on moral equivalency with someone you are suggesting be perma-banned?
Checkmate, indeed.
Nope.
Because I have not conducted myself in any fashion that would warrant a ban, or even consideration of one :)
Erotica1 has. Repeatedly and with extremely compelling evidence in heaps.
Go ahead. Play this recording over loudspeakers at the next Fanfest, maybe even at the unveiling of the Monument. I double dare you. Certainly the recording is a shining example of EVEs community and would do great honor and justice to that event, dont you think? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
462
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:And this...isnt what Erotica1 did?
Thanks for admitting his guilt :)
CHECKMATE, again.
My god, you are TERRIBLE at this. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
464
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
If someone roundhouse kicked Erotica1, I would laugh and applaud :)
And Im completely within my rights to say and think so, both offline and here on this board.
You can think Im a "bad" person for that, but no law or contract prevents me from laughing or applauding, nor for saying I would.
It wouldnt be me kicking him, and its entirely within my purview how I, as an unassociated autonomous individual, choose to respond to that with laughter and clapping, or to say that that would be my reaction. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
466
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:It makes you every bit as morally reprehensible as the person you think needs to be banned.
Nope.
Because my laughter and applause is directed at someone who has been actively griefing and humiliating other human beings beyond the pale of civility, even considering the circumstances of EVE as a game, getting it back right in the face.
Erotica1 deliberately, and provably, griefs and humiliates other human beings beyond the scope of the games systems.
I have not.
I'd be genuinely scared for my own security if I was Erotica1, as a result of his chosen actions towards other human beings. World is full of crazies, you know. Not like its unprecedented. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
466
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The only reason for someone to use physical force is in defense of themselves or another innocent person. Or property. Nor does the other person have to qualify as "innocent" in order to legally justify physical force being used in their defense.
You just showed you are lying about having legal training.
Thanks for playing! |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
466
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:You'd be laughing at someone who outplayed someone in a video game being physically assaulted. The only thing Erotica1 could do to justify physical assault is physcially assult someone.
I'd be laughing at someone getting it in the face as a result of their own conduct in deliberately griefing and humiliating other human beings above and beyond the scope of the game itself.
Perfectly justified.
Jenn aSide wrote:If you don't understand why you are wrong, I can't help you understand it now. Such understanding needs to be instilled while a person is still young by parents and by a community that values right and wrong.
Yes. That would seem to be the case for Erotica1. Thanks for supporting that!
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
467
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Even in my state (Texas), use of force or deadly force in defense of property must be 'reasonable' where as defense of self or an innocent third person is almost absolute. And the term innocent third person is important because you can't claim self defense for your drug dealing buddy when things go wrong (as an example).
I do so enjoy being called a liar by some untrained and immoral civilian who probably doesn't even live in my country.
Oh so much wrong with this, and ESPECIALLY as specific to Texas.
Firstly. the circumstances of the threat determine whether force or deadly force is justified, not what is being defended by the act. Deadly force is not reasonable when someone is attacking either you or your property with a plastic spoon.
Second, police officer protecting a convicted individual in their custody can use necessary force to defend them against an aggressor (for example a relative of whoever the convicted individual had committed a crime against). The person protected is not "innocent", but protecting them with force is still justified.
You are a liar. You don't have any formal legal training. |
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Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
468
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Your ideas of what justifies violence concern me somewhat.
I did not say the violence is justified.
I did say I would laugh and applaud if it occured to an individual as a result of their deliberate griefing and humiliation of other human beings above and beyond the purview and context of the game.
I would laugh and applaud a kid KO:ing the bully who has been griefing and humiliating him as well.
Everyone can agree that EVE allows for a wide range of aggression towards other players. That is all well and fine.
In these specific incidents perpetrated by Erotica1, however, the extent of abuse, humiliation and griefing extends beyond the confines of the game and becomes frankly an issue for actual legal action. The only thing that protects Erotica1 from that, is that he does not live in the same legal jurisdiction as his victims.
Make no mistake, bring these recordings before any judge or jury, and explain the context to them, and they will all find in favor of the plaintiff.
CCP needs to decide whether they really want to place their stamp of approval on this kind of extreme conduct, griefing and humiliation. I would most certainly encourage that they do NOT accept it, and take punitive action against those who take this game to such extremes. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
468
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:48:00 -
[32] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Look up the Texas Penal Code for yourself if you don't understand (the highlighted part, in particular is just wrong, it's circumstances AND what is being defended, along with 'when' because there are justifications for nighttime acts that don't apply to daytime).
Source and citation needed for all these claims.
Go ahead, I'm waiting. If you actually have legal training it will take you only a few minutes to source and reference the related sections in the correct format.
As to your repeated claims that "You are are not sane" and "You need help", are you claiming to be a professionally trained psychiatrist now as well as a lawyer?
Big. Fat. Liar. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
468
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:You're exact words were, " Perfectly justified." Now who's the liar? Don't talk to me like I was born yesterday, kiddo.
I said my laughing at and applauding it is perfectly justified.
Not that the act of violence is perfectly justified.
Do you see the difference? I also was not born yesterday, whipper-snapper. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
469
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:58:00 -
[34] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: My concern stands, whether you find pleasure or justification in real violence, you are a concern. Your concern is a result of your misreading.
I have not said the act of violence is justified.
I said my laughing and applauding an act of retribution by a victim against an individual who has griefed and humiliated them above beyond the civil context of the circumstances those have occured in, is justified.
If that is a "concern" to you, that is your problem. Not mine. Deal with it.
Also, I dont think "masochist" means what you think it means. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
471
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Posted - 2014.03.25 15:10:00 -
[35] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Actually, I looked it up to check before I used it. It means what I think it means. Masochism is enjoying suffering inflicted upon oneself. Sadism is the term you where looking for, which does not apply anyways, because I do not enjoy the suffering inflicted, only the fulfillment and vindication of justice from the abused to the abuser.
Remiel Pollard wrote:what you're saying is that you would applaud the violence? I have not said that. I am not saying that.
Remiel Pollard wrote:You are quite the concerning individual. Please avoid having children and stay away from other peoples' babies. Thank you.
Coming from a self-professed autist, that means very little.
Not to mention you have no business telling people to stay away from children or babies, but I don't expect an autist to have the necessary social and empathic capacity to recognise that.
Glass house, pot and kettle, all that. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
471
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Posted - 2014.03.25 15:15:00 -
[36] - Quote
arabella blood wrote:if it repeats everytime, something must be going on... Try it.
You will see for yourself there is a dedicated department of stonewall/spindoctor/whitewash posters who's purpose here is is to wage forum wars as a supplement to EVE.
They are the ones who cause this repetition, and it is their purpose here.
Try it for yourself. It doesn't take much to set them off. Try expressing an opinion that questions or undermines a prominent null entity, for example. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
474
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Posted - 2014.03.25 15:25:00 -
[37] - Quote
Malcolm from Marketing wrote:---
If it was me or you doing it, these same individuals protesting Erotica1's innocence would be screaming for our blood and banning.
Some of them earn directly from Erotica1, as does CODE. Others are present in the "bonus room" recordings, getting their circle-jerk on with sweaty palms and heavy breathing.
@Jenn aSide: You aren't smart enough to take me on. Get on my level. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
488
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Posted - 2014.03.25 15:44:00 -
[38] - Quote
arabella blood wrote:Aaaaand we are on page 15 and no Erotica1 comment yet. Banned already? He is here reading. Has even thrown me a Like or two. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
498
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Posted - 2014.03.25 17:31:00 -
[39] - Quote
There are two separate contexts involved here.
What is happening in-game, and what is happening outside the game.
1) Ingame:
Erotica1 is free to and within his rights to perpetrate as many scams as he wants. His doubling scheme, insofar as what happens ingame, is allowed and fine. He can aquire ingame assets from other whether consentually by them giving them to him, or by ingame aggression. This is the same and true for all in EVE.
Nobody is claiming that what is happening ingame is a violation of EULA, the games rules or its internal context.
When someone hands over their assets ingame to Erotica1, that is their own choice (though an emminently stupid one) and there is no recourse for complaint either legally or to CCP.
This part is all well and fine. What is actually happening inside the game is not a problem.
2) Outside the game:
This is where the problems arise. Though ingame, everyone is operating under the EULA and CCPs service terms, what happens outside of the game (in this case in 3rd party voice chat communications) the individuals are no longer operating as "characters" ingame. They are now autonomous, responsible and accountable people subject to the rule of law and social norms as is everyone else in all activities in their mundane lives outside of the game.
They are no longer players in a game, they are now people.
What Erotica1 is doing to these other PEOPLE, outside of the game, is absolutely and unequivocably illegal.
Though the assets ingame have already been transferred, legitimatelymboth legally and within the context of the game itself, he then begins an extended process of blackmailing the PERSON, in a 3rd party out of game format, as an independant and responsible and accountable PERSON himself.
By holding the ingame assets as ransom, he blackmails the PERSON OUTSIDE OF THE GAME for return of those ingame assets. This is no longer hapoening within the game, it is outside of it. He is no longer using the games internal mechanics in order to scam someone, he is doing it IN PERSON to that OTHER PERSON in a format that is OUTSIDE the games context.
As to the actual mechanisms of that blackmail, those are apparent in the recording, and carry several aggravating instances. -He holds the ingame assets as ransom against the PERSON to perform OUT OF GAME demeaning tasks, such as in this case PERSONALLY reading OUT OF GAME texts. -The incident is aggravated by demonstrable malice, because there is no longer any INGAME assets to be aquired through the process. Erotica1 already has the other players assets at this point. Ecerything that happens in the voice chat is NOT for the purposes of aquiring any more ingame assets, by blackmailmhappening outside the game, but by MALICE to demean and humiliate the victim. -That Erotica1 does this with INTENT is demonstrated by the fsct this is not a one off incident. It is not defensible as a one off emotional act without planning or intent. It is systematic and repeated. -Including other people in the recordings, and other specifics of the act of blackmail, he induces DURESS on the victim. In this specific even to the extremepoint that the victims wife, concerned for the demonstrably harmed harmed victim, tried to entreat cessation of the blackmail. -The incident is protracted. This is not a 5min affair, the tormenting continues for a full fking 2hrs. This raises the degree of severity of the crime implicitly, as an aggravating element.
CCP is not responsible for this.
Erotica1 is HIMSELF completely responsible for his own conduct outside of the game, which is where ALL of this occurs.
In my opinion, Erotica1s actions OUT OF THE GAME constitute illegal and criminal behavior.
As such, I hope that one of his victims does indeed report this matter to their local police, regardless of jurisdiction.
Furthermore, CCP is also in my view completely within its rights to file charges against Erotica1 for misusing the service they provide to enable his OWN illegal activities of blackmail.
And if the blackmail charges dont stick, the case can be tried as any number of charges relating to willfully causing psychological harm and duress to another person in voth criminal and civil courts.
The one existing precedent we have of this, is the Mittani incident. But The Mittani DID NOT BREAK ANY LAWS. Even in that case, and as is generally held as a good thing, CCP took actiin to indicate that it does not, as a company, endorse or support anti-social behavior inside OR OUTSIDE the game, as an extension of their services.
To those who argue that CCP delineating on this wouldnbe amslippery slope threatening the precious nature of EVE that we all love, that is not a valid concern for two reasons:
1) Erotica1s conduct in the recording happens OUTSIDE OF THE GAME. What he is doing is not EVE. It is not natural to the game. It is happening OUTSIDE the game.
2) The slippery slope argument works both ways. If CCP does not delineate that it does not support thismkind of behavior by any extension in relation to its services and client base, then this kind od thing that Erotica1 is doing by EXTENSION from the game will only conceivably get worse, to the absolute worst case scenario of some disgruntled individual actually showing up to a Fanfest with a pipebomb. I strongly urge that CCP needs to protect its clients from persons like Erotica1 utilising their service for activities such as this. The EULA stipulates that players can and should be protected from this kind of behavior. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
506
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Posted - 2014.03.25 17:46:00 -
[40] - Quote
Erotica1 is, with malice, willful forethought and intent, extorting/blackmailing victims OUTSIDE OF THE GAME by holding their INGAME assets ransom.
The entire "Bonus Room" is an external context, outside of EVE, in which he is dealing with people as people, with himself and all associated persons involved, as legal real entities.
What he is doing OUTSIDE OF THE GAME is extremely and unequivocably, illegal. |
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
506
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 17:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Erotica1 is, with malice, willful forethought and intent, extorting/blackmailing victims OUTSIDE OF THE GAME by holding their INGAME items ransom Erotica 1 uses Eve Voice instead of Teamspeak. Reformulate your argument. Go!
False. Teamspeak.
And if it is happening in EveVoice, then it is all the more reason for CCP to immediately take action in order to avoid possible legal repercussions to itself, and to protect its clients feom this kind of illegal activity by persons utilising their service for those purposes. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
508
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 17:56:00 -
[42] - Quote
Capt Starfox wrote:[And you believe this to be a real world crime, so I ask again, when did the cops care about my space stuff? Can I call them when I lose my next ship?
It is not happening inside EVE. It is happening outside it.
For all intents and purposes this is no different than extorting/blackmailing a person over a telephone or even by letters. The medium is irrelevant to the crime. The external context and holding a persons assets ransom for purposes of OUT OF GAME extortion/blackmail is illegal. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
508
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:03:00 -
[43] - Quote
Capt Starfox wrote:I still don't understand why the police should care about my, or anyone else's, space stuff. 
It doesnt matter if its space stuff, pictures of you with your adultress, money, a fat pig or your childrens lives.
The crime is in the act of extortion/blackmail, not in what is being held by the perpetrator as a means to the act. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
509
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:13:00 -
[44] - Quote
Erotica1s ingame activities are fine.
It is his out of game activities which are in my view absolutely illegal. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
513
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:29:00 -
[45] - Quote
To those arguing that the assets are owned by CCP, then it falls incumbent on CCP to press charges on Erotica1 for ransoming their ingame proprietary property against an individual who has paid CCPfor use of them, by means of extortion/blackmail occuring OUTSIDE of thee game.
Erotica1s ingame activities are not a cause of dispute. He has aquired those assets legitimately ingame. What he then does to those people from whom he has aquied them OUTSIDE of the game, is illegal.
Lets say I manage to scam you out of your assets ingame. You transfer them to my character from yours. Then subsequently I show up at your door or call you at work, and tell you that if you do this ans this, I will return your assets to you.
It breaks numerous stipulations of the EULA and various other less formal publicstions of policy issued by CCP to do so. There is to be NO external, out of game, involvment with other players in regards to the services that CCP provides ingame.
Erotica1 is treating these people OUTSIDE THE GAME in this fashion, illegally, against the EULA designed to protect players as clients from exactly this kind of conduct. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
513
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Posted - 2014.03.25 18:37:00 -
[46] - Quote
You dont seem to understand how courts work.
Aany threats Sohkar made can be tried in separate cases. Thats fine and Erotica1s prerogative to pursue. They do not however absolve Erotica1 of his own conduct or legal culpability.
Second of all, and as would invariably be the case for the defence if those charges where brought against Sohkar, is that he was under duress caused by Erotica1 in the first place, at the time that he made them. This is substantiated further by even his wife entreating the perpetrators to desist.
You are underestimating the severity of this situation. This is some very serious **** that goes well beyond forum trolling. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
513
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:42:00 -
[47] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:To those arguing that the assets are owned by CCP, then it falls incumbent on CCP to press charges on Erotica1 for ransoming their ingame proprietary property against an individual who has paid CCPfor use of them, by means of extortion/blackmail occuring OUTSIDE of thee game. CCP could take such action if they judge themselves to have been harmed by such false claims, but they are in no way obligated to do so.
Erotica1 has been blackmailing/extorting clients of CCP OUTSIDE of the game, by means of and against their (either Sohkars or CCPs, depending on how that swings) ingame property.
There is no false claim here. The recording is real, and takes place outside of the game, as does everything that occurs in that recording. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
513
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:46:00 -
[48] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:]What law was broken, cite the specific statute and provide proof of your prosecutorial/law enforcement credentials?
The first depends on the jurisdiction the matter is tried in.
To the second I do not have to present any credentials as I am not prosecuting or investigating the potential case, nor claiming to be a prosecutor, nor a law enforcement officer. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
513
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:49:00 -
[49] - Quote
Praise the Yeti wrote:Based on this, are you requesting Shadoo and Grath Telkin be banned also?
There are public recordings of them engaging in the same type of activity as Erotica.
I am not familiar with those.
Do you have links perhaps? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
513
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 18:59:00 -
[50] - Quote
Batelle wrote:[I wasn't disputing the veracity of the recording, I'm saying that CCP has no obligation to press charges against erotica1 for ransoming CCP's property.
The EULA also stipulates to protect paying customers. Its a unilateral agreement where part of the service provided is exactly to protect customers who sign it and pay for the service from exactly this kind of behavior.
Id rather not dig through it all to point out where, but its in there and the means to enforce it are too. Probably they are open to a great degree of interpretation.
I personally would hope that CCP does not support or endorse its services being used against its clients by persons extending them to out of game potentially criminal behavior, as would seem to be the case in this specific instance at least from where Im standing. |
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
515
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:08:00 -
[51] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:Brusanan wrote:Big Lynx wrote:Again: how much isk was scammed out of that guy? Only about 1.1 billion. EDIT: Also, he wasn't scammed. He quit the bonus round and forfeited his ISK. and what is his name in game? The blog, completenwith article and recording is linked in the very first post.
You can find the name there. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
515
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:15:00 -
[52] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Meilandra Vanderganken wrote:Well yeah, I think he goes way over the line of decent behavior. Having said that: how bloody stupid do you have to be to engage in his bonus room thingy?
general consensus so far is: bordering on mental instability.
Yes, which is part of the mechanic of selection of victims for extortion/ransom used in this activity. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
518
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:22:00 -
[53] - Quote
ShipSpin wrote:That is not true and here's why, see the bold sections. Quote: -º 11.443 Harassment. A person commits a petty misdemeanor if, with purpose to harass another, he or she: (a) Makes a telephone call without purpose or legitimate communication; or (b) Insults, taunts or challenges another in a manner likely to provoke violent or disorderly response; or (c) Makes repeated communications anonymously or at extremely inconvenient hours, or in offensively coarse language; or (d) Subjects another to an offensive touching; or (e) Engages in any other course of alarming conduct serving no legitimate purpose.
It IS true from the following bolded sub-section: (b) Insults, taunts or challenges another in a manner likely to provoke violent or disorderly response; or
The perpetrators (Erotica1 and company) repeatedly challenge the victim to perform demeaning acts, in the form of demands to which the victim is likely to respond in a violent or disorderly fashion rather than acquiescing to the blackmail/extortion implicit in expressing those challenges in the first place. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
519
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:30:00 -
[54] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Some guy getting embarrassed because he's greedy is in no way comparable to sexual assault.
Greedy?
Erotica1 advertises his services as legit. The ingame part of this is all well and fine. He can scam his heart out INSIDE EVE. I agree anyone stupid or greedy enough to fall for the INGAME scam, is legitimately deprived of his ingame assets.
But the "Bonus Room" incident in the recording, happens OUTSIDE of EVE.
At this point the victim has already surrendered his assets to Erotica1 ingame.
Everything that happens in the "Bonus Room" is not a matter of greed, it is a matter of extorting/blackmailing that person against RETURN of those ingame assets, in an OUT OF GAME context.
The victim is not motivated by greed at this point, he is motivated by the extortion/blackmail promise that they will return his assets to him if he meets their extortion/blackmail demands. This, legally, constitutes the introduction of duress. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
519
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:33:00 -
[55] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:Big Lynx wrote:Again: how much isk was scammed out of that guy? Client lost around 1b total when he failed the bonus round.
Its no longer a "client", as you refer to him in an ingame context, when you are dealing with him outside of the game. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
523
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:38:00 -
[56] - Quote
Capt Starfox wrote:If this were to occur in real life at like a parking lot or something, then yes this would be considered a crime. Not in a video game for space stuff.
It didnt happen in the video game.
It happened outside of it, in "real life".
The "Bonus Room" incident happens outside of the game. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
526
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:52:00 -
[57] - Quote
Batelle wrote:5) the accuser was consenting and not coerced (the fact that the accuser was lied to doesn't necessarily make it coercion, erotica1 never had any means of coercion nor claimed to have such means).
"Either you come come to this out of game context, or your ingame assets are lost to you". This constitutes coercion, by means of duress.
Duress is represented in this case by Erotica1 holding the players ingame assets against him as ransom, as a means of blackmail/extortion to coerce the player into the out of game context.
Erotica1 already holds the players assets at this point (legitimately).
But he then applies duress (by means of ransoming the players ingame assets against his out of game compliance) to force/coerce that player into an out of game context where the rest of the blackmail/extortion can occur. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
527
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:00:00 -
[58] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:The sum total of harm is a couple of hours of frustration, a days worth of farming (of virtual assets the player doesn't really own anyway), and if the player really, really, really wants to get away from the experience, trade the character.
You are underestimating the severity of this situation.
Extortion and blackmail are a federal felony in the US. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
527
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:03:00 -
[59] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:You are underestimating the severity of this situation.
Extortion and blackmail are a federal felony in the US.
Are you serious?!
I loled for real
Seriously[/quote]
Yes, I'm for real. Look em up yourself.
Did you really think that there are no people playing EVE capable of committing a felony OUTSIDE of EVE? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
528
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:06:00 -
[60] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Im laughing because you are a fantasist if you think those apply
It applies completely, because it happened OUTSIDE OF EVE. |
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
528
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:11:00 -
[61] - Quote
Well, you lied to her.
What happened to him is the following by analogy:
Your daughter comes out of a store with a lollipop inhand, happy as can be.
A grown man comes up to your daughter and promises her that if she gives him her lollipop, he will give her two back in return.
Your daughter thinks about this for a moment, and decides that two lollipops are indeed better than one. She complies and gives him her lollipop.
The grown man, now holding her lollipop, then additionally informs her that in order for her to get the double lollipop deal, she has to get off the street she is on, and follow him down this dark alley.
That is what is happening here. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
528
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:19:00 -
[62] - Quote
Batelle wrote:I agree. And that is in no way, shape, or form, extortion or blackmail. Its a breach of contract. You must be a terrible lawyer.
I suppose you could argue that extortion/blackmail are a form of breach of contract. But that is why you are not a lawyer. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
528
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:24:00 -
[63] - Quote
Batelle wrote:An agreement made in Eve, or an agreement concerning the transference of eve assets, obviously does not constitute a contract.
Which is exactly why what happened outside of the game constitutes blackmail/extortion instead.
The second the interchange between these parties was taken outside of the game, the ingame context ceased to apply. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
529
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:30:00 -
[64] - Quote
Navi Annages wrote:CCP can do nothing legally for any personal conversations that happen outside of the game. Get real.
The perpetrators coerced the victim into an out of game context, by means of his (or CCPs) ingame assets. What happened in that out of game context, is potentially illegal.
I don't think CCP wants its services being used as a means for individuals to perpetrate crimes against other players. Infact much of the EULA and CCP's informal policy, including some key elements of the CSM constitution notably, explicitly forbid people using ingame assets against the people who are playing the game. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
529
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:35:00 -
[65] - Quote
Navi Annages wrote:"Potentially" Good luck going to small claims court over 20 bucks. lawl He has no legal recourse for return of his items. He gave those away legitimately ingame.
What happened outside of the game, however, was a result of the people holding those ingame assets using them to coerce him into a 2hr protracted event of blackmail/extortion to perform demeaning acts for return of those ingame assets.
That happened outside of the game, and all normal laws apply to that. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
529
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:41:00 -
[66] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:it is not a crime to agree to sing a song, and I have little doubt that the contestant was motivated by greed, not fear (not going to listen because there is only so much stupid I can take).
Malice is provable. The perpetrators already had the victims ingame assets. Everything that was done in the "Bonus Room", outside the game, was in order to harm the victim. There was no longer even any actual assets to acquire by means of blackmail/extortion.
Instead, they extracted gratification from the victims suffering for two hours through blackmail/extortion demands for the ransomed ingame assets. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
529
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:42:00 -
[67] - Quote
Victor Andall wrote:And were the assets relinquished to Erotica1 under duress as well? No, they where not.
Everything that happened actually ingame, is legit and fine. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
537
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Posted - 2014.03.25 21:14:00 -
[68] - Quote
Let me see if I can construct an analogy that is reasonably relevant and accurate to this:
You are in a casino. You hold in your possession a stack of the casino's chips. You are entitled to use these chips, though they nominally actually belong to the casino establishment.
In the course of your activities in the casino, you are approached by a shady individual offering to double your casino chips. You are such an idiot, that you believe this claim, and hand over your chips to the guy. He is now, legitimately, holding your chips. You gave them to him. Sucks to be you.
This part of the story ends there, and represents the initial ingame events. So far, this is all kosher and legit. No problems.
The next part represents what happens OUT of the game, and is far harder to model on the analogy, but Ill try:
The same guy you gave your chips to, who is now holding your chips in HIS pocket, now informs you that in order for the rest of the your doubling to occur, you have to follow him out of the casino establishment, and into a dark alley.
This presents a real problem for you. He is now legitimately holding your chips. You gave them to him. They are in his pocket. You have no direct recourse to re-aquiring the chips, except to comply and follow him down that dark alley. The only way that you can get them back, or have even a hope of getting them back, is to do as he says.
At this point you can either decline, and lose everything, or comply, in the hope that atleast you can get back your own stack of chips and the earlier latent promise of him doubling them is still being offered as an incentive.
The casino, however, does not allow customers to take their chips outside of the establishment. So the other man deposits your chips, out of his pocket, at the casino door.
You then both leave environment that is the casino, as an establishment with its own set rules of conduct on its premises.
You follow him until eventually you reach a dark alley.
There, other shady men appear, and together, they begin demanding that you perform humiliating and demeaning tasks if you ever want to see your chips again. This continues for a full 2hrs and, because your wife is worried where you got to, she finds you in the alley with these men, being demanded to perform these humiliating tasks for return of your chips.
The men also record the entire activity for purposes of sharing with their "friends", for enjoyment.
All of this happened outside the casino, and the chips are still back in the casino. They are still OWNED by the casino. The casinos rules have not changed in the meantime.
Now onto the part of what should happen now:
Now, it is informed to the casino staff that there is somebody going around on their business premises offering to double the chips of other clients, pocketing those chips from them, and then taking the victims down a dark alley for 2hrs of recorded humiliation and demeaning on the false promise of returning those chips to them (which dont actually belong to either of the participants).
I, as the casino manager, upon hearing this, immediately blackball and exclude the shady people from ever doing this to my customers again. I do it for the protection of my customers, for the protection of my chips and for the protection of the reputation of my establishment.
Anyways, was worth an attempt. Take from it what you will. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
544
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Posted - 2014.03.25 21:20:00 -
[69] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Let me see if I can construct an analogy that is reasonably relevant and accurate to this:
You are in a casino. You hold in your possession a stack of the casino's chips. You are entitled to use these chips, though they nominally actually belong to the casino establishment.
In the course of your activities in the casino, you are approached by a shady individual offering to double your casino chips. You are such an idiot, that you believe this claim, and hand over your chips to the guy. He is now, legitimately, holding your chips. You gave them to him. Sucks to be you.
This part of the story ends there, and represents the initial ingame events. So far, this is all kosher and legit. No problems.
The next part represents what happens OUT of the game, and is far harder to model on the analogy, but Ill try:
The same guy you gave your chips to, who is now holding your chips in HIS pocket, now informs you that in order for the rest of the your doubling to occur, you have to follow him out of the casino establishment, and into a dark alley.
This presents a real problem for you. He is now legitimately holding your chips. You gave them to him. They are in his pocket. You have no direct recourse to re-aquiring the chips, except to comply and follow him down that dark alley. The only way that you can get them back, or have even a hope of getting them back, is to do as he says.
At this point you can either decline, and lose everything, or comply, in the hope that atleast you can get back your own stack of chips and the earlier latent promise of him doubling them is still being offered as an incentive.
The casino, however, does not allow customers to take their chips outside of the establishment. So the other man deposits your chips, out of his pocket, at the casino door.
You then both leave environment that is the casino, as an establishment with its own set rules of conduct and security on its premises.
You follow him until eventually you reach a dark alley.
There, other shady men appear, and together, they begin demanding that you perform humiliating and demeaning tasks if you ever want to see your chips again. This continues for a full 2hrs and, because your wife is worried where you got to, she finds you in the alley with these men, being demanded to perform these humiliating tasks for return of your chips.
The men also record the entire activity for purposes of sharing with their "friends", for enjoyment.
All of this happened outside the casino, and the chips are still back in the casino. They are still OWNED by the casino. The casinos rules have not changed in the meantime.
Now onto the part of what should happen now:
Now, it is informed to the casino staff that there is somebody going around on their business premises offering to double the chips of other clients, pocketing those chips from them, and then taking the victims down a dark alley for 2hrs of recorded humiliation and demeaning on the false promise of returning those chips to them (which dont actually belong to either of the participants).
I, as the casino manager, upon hearing this, immediately blackball and exclude the shady people from ever doing this to my customers again. I do it for the protection of my customers, for the protection of my chips and for the protection of the reputation of my establishment.
Anyways, was worth an attempt. Take from it what you will. Can I have a TL:DR?
No, you cannot. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
547
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Posted - 2014.03.25 21:33:00 -
[70] - Quote
Why do you do it?
You already have their ISK and assets.
Whats with the 2hr of out of game torment. with demeaning and humiliating tasks on the false promise they will have their ingame stuff returned to them? |
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
549
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 21:42:00 -
[71] - Quote
The ultimate payout might be a roundhouse kick to the face from some random aggrieved loony at Fanfest. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
554
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Posted - 2014.03.25 22:01:00 -
[72] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:just going to point out that you've confirmed your stance that running a scam in a game that encourages scams, is to you, less acceptable than physical violence.
Scams, violence, humiliation, griefing are all ok AS LONG AS THEY HAPPEN INGAME.
None of them are ok, when they happen outside of the game.
That is my stance.
And yes, I would laugh and applaud if someone kicked Erotica1 in the face at a Fanfest. Nothing illegal about laughing or applauding, nor is it against EULA.
And I would also laugh and applaud if Erotica1 was banned from the game. Again, nothing illegal about laughing or applauding, nor is it against EULA.
Wouldn't you? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
557
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Posted - 2014.03.25 22:06:00 -
[73] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:So.... if its not against the EULA of a video game, its ok in real life huh? Read you, daft cow.
Notice the phrase "its not illegal". So yes, it is ok in real life.
baltec1 wrote: Erotica 1 got someone to sing.
You want someone to kick them in the face in RL.
I wonder, which is worse...
No, I said I would applaud and laugh if someone did. I did not say I wanted someone to do it. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
557
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 22:09:00 -
[74] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:i'm 100% sure that kicking some one in the face, is not legal. it's assault. Laughing and applauding it is not illegal.
Which is what I said.
Reading is HAAARRD.
I would laugh and applaud if someone booted him in the face. I would laugh and applaud if he is banned from the game.
Sorry if that upsets you.
Perhaps you prefer the company of those who laugh at the suffering of Sohkar and his wife in the recording? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
557
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Posted - 2014.03.25 22:12:00 -
[75] - Quote
I am not causing anyone misfortune by laughing or applauding.
The same cannot be said of Erotica1.
Nice try though! |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
560
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Posted - 2014.03.25 22:17:00 -
[76] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Getting someone to sing on comms is nowhere near the same thing. I dont hear anyone singing gleefully in that recording.
I hear a group of sadists circlejerking with sweaty palms amidst much heavy breathing at the suffering they can inflict on a person outside of the game. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
560
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Posted - 2014.03.25 22:19:00 -
[77] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:guess you didn't get to the end where the "victim" broke out in to a tirade of racial slurs and real life threats, then?
Was that the part where you finally orgasmed? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
560
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Posted - 2014.03.25 22:20:00 -
[78] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:An event that in my country would be delt with via the police arresting them for battery/assault, and section 5 of the public order act.
I dont think even in your country people are arresting for laughing or applauding. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
560
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Posted - 2014.03.25 22:34:00 -
[79] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Actually you can, it's an incite to riot and public order offence. Laughing and applauding is outlawed in your country?
Thats fked up, dude. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
563
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 22:38:00 -
[80] - Quote
Jill Chastot wrote:This seems to come down to the fact that people are thinking Ero is doing this with malice. that observation is for everyone to make.
At the point the recording begins, Erotica1 already has the entirety of the victims assets.
The sole and only purpose of the subsequent entire 2hrs torment, is to humiliate and grief the victim. That is malice. |
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
563
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 22:41:00 -
[81] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:It is if you are laughing and applauding at someone being attacked on the street. If its someone who I know has spent 2hrs tormenting a victim and his wife to the point of breaking, for no other reason than to sadistically enjoy their suffering and to share their recording of it with "friends", yes, I will absolutely laugh and applaud. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
563
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 22:43:00 -
[82] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Jill Chastot wrote:This seems to come down to the fact that people are thinking Ero is doing this with malice. that observation is for everyone to make. At the point the recording begins, Erotica1 already has the entirety of the victims assets. The sole and only purpose of the subsequent entire 2hrs torment, is to humiliate and grief the victim. That is malice. Wrong. It has been a long standing thing to get people to sing and record them.
At what point in the recording does the victim sing? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
564
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Posted - 2014.03.25 22:52:00 -
[83] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:
At what point in the recording does the victim sing?
Are you now trying to say that they were not trying to get this person to sing?
Did I say that?
*Looks at quote*
Nope. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
566
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Posted - 2014.03.25 22:59:00 -
[84] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:[then stop pretending that erotica is the biggest monster in the story when he did very little in comparison.
Fine.
Ill stop pretending, when you stop pretending that the entire activity isnt designed as a victim selection process.
Only someone who was already stupid enough to fall for the ingame legit scam, can be coerced out of the game into the Bonus Room torture situation, on the false premise that younwill, in that out of game context , return their ingame assets if they perform the demeaning and humiliating demans you place upon them.
You then carefully keep a stoic pokerface while furiously fapping to the suffering you elicit and urging them on till eventually they crack and begin with the profanities, at which point your sadistic needs are fulfilled and you can finally orgasm whereas ou normaloy cant even get an erection.
Then you use the profanities you elicited from duress of 2hrs of psychological torture, as an excuse to call THEM the monster.
Howsnthat for pretending. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
575
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Posted - 2014.03.25 23:23:00 -
[85] - Quote
Scamming inside EVE is fine.
Scamming OUTSIDE EVE is a whole other can of worms, including various felony charges.
Erotica1 is sourcing his victims from CCP's EVE player base and community.
He is coercing them into his OUT OF GAME "Bonus Room" as an extension of his ingame "Isk Doubling" racket. That is how he finds and selects his victims.
He is using the players assets, which are actually CCPs assets, which he has legitimately gained ingame, by ILLEGITIMATELY promising" to return of them to the person if he joins Erotica1 and the other sadists in his OUT OF THE GAME "Bonus Room" and there perform to their humiliating, degrading and griefing demands. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
576
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Posted - 2014.03.25 23:32:00 -
[86] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:[then stop pretending that erotica is the biggest monster in the story when he did very little in comparison.
Fine.
Ill stop pretending, when you stop pretending that the entire activity isnt designed as a victim selection process.
Only someone who was already stupid enough to fall for the ingame legit scam, can be coerced out of the game into the Bonus Room torture situation, on the false premise that younwill, in that out of game context , return their ingame assets if they perform the demeaning and humiliating demans you place upon them.
You then carefully keep a stoic pokerface while furiously fapping to the suffering you elicit and urging them on till eventually they crack and begin with the profanities, at which point your sadistic needs are fulfilled and you can finally orgasm whereas ou normaloy cant even get an erection.
Then you use the profanities you elicited from duress of 2hrs of psychological torture, as an excuse to call THEM the monster.
Howsnthat for pretending. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
579
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Posted - 2014.03.25 23:37:00 -
[87] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:So discreditted sexist garbage proported by men who couldnt get any and blame women for their inadequacies *Trying to derail thread into gender war*
*Someones getting desperate!* |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
579
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 23:39:00 -
[88] - Quote
Danalee wrote: I've played the isk doubling game and won.
Have you been in the out of game "Bonus Room"?
You're gonna need to provide a recording. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
579
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 23:41:00 -
[89] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote: *Trying to derail thread into gender war*
How does one derail a comment by answering it directly?
Reading. Its good for the brain. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
579
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 23:44:00 -
[90] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Katkon Darnok wrote:Absolutely despicable and clear case of cyber-bullying. This is nothing like cyber bullying.
Legal definition
Cyberbullying is defined in legal glossaries as
-actions that use information and communication technologies to support deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior by an individual or group, that is intended to harm another or others. -use of communication technologies for the intention of harming another person -use of internet service and mobile technologies such as web pages and discussion groups as well as instant messaging or SMS text messaging with the intention of harming another person.
Examples of what constitutes cyberbullying include communications that seek to intimidate, control, manipulate, put down, falsely discredit, or humiliate the recipient. The actions are deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior intended to harm another.
Cyberbullying has been defined by The National Crime Prevention Council: GÇ£When the Internet, cell phones or other devices are used to send or post text or images intended to hurt or embarrass another person." |
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
582
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Posted - 2014.03.25 23:50:00 -
[91] - Quote
Navi Annages wrote:So start the Extradition Orders for all the various countries that were involved in this hostile behavior. Thanks for recognising that it indeed constitutes cyberbullying. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
582
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 23:54:00 -
[92] - Quote
Kirsi Kirjasto wrote:Sane? I'll leave that to the reader. Moi Kirsi.
Its insane to spend 2hrs tormenting someone and their wife for no profit whatsoever. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
582
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Posted - 2014.03.25 23:55:00 -
[93] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:So Erotica 1 can keep on bonus rooming it up, just use Eve Voice bro! Insta-ban if he does. 100% certain.
Thats why he doesn't. But don't worry. This will gain enough momentum for action to be taken, either way. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
589
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:08:00 -
[94] - Quote
Erotica1 is sourcing his victims from EVEs community for an out of game "Bonus Room" torture session.
There is no ISK in it. There is nothing related to the game, except the victim, at all in it. The only outcome and purpose, is causing harm and suffering to the victim which is then recorded for the amusement of other sadists.
He finds his victims from the EVE player base by means of his (legitimate) ISK doubling activities ingame.
Once he has a hook in them, he then convinces them to hand over their assets (again, legitimately).
What is NOT legitimate, is telling those people that they have to join an OUT OF GAME "Bonus Room" to get it back.
That crosses the line. At that point you are illegitimately carrying an EVE Scam to the person themselves, in a context that extends outside the purview of the game.
This is explicitly forbidden and ruled against in the EULA and also by this declaration in the CSM constitution:
"FREEDOM FROM UNDUE EXTERNAL INFLUENCES First, individuals have the right to be free of undue external influences in the virtual society. To enforce this right, the EULA, TOS and other legal documents define the boundary which separates a playerGÇÖs real life actions from his or her virtual ones. As mentioned earlier, this is a non-negotiable social contract that is essential for maintaining the cohesion of any virtual society. These rules establish a framework for real world personal behavior and decision making that limits the amount of external influence that can be leveraged in the game world"
At the point that Erotica1 makes it a condition of his scam that someones steps OUTSIDE of EVE in order to participate, he is extending the scam beyond the purview of EVE. Furthermore, if successful in luring a victim to his "Bonus Room" he is externally influencing that person, externally from the game, on the specific contract/scam that he offered to the player ingame.
If there are people who are sourcing their victims from within the CCP provided service, for OUT OF GAME criminal activity, CCP must protect its player base. We sign a EULA specifically in the unilateral understanding that we are to be protected from people trying to exploit or predate on us in an external capacity that extends beyond the purview of the game but originates from within it. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
591
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:20:00 -
[95] - Quote
RomeStar wrote:Bad press is still better than no press at all right :) Business good..?
Bad press for CCP when knowledge of this and the recording proliferates.
Good press for CCP when they take action on it.
Both press, net profit.
Throwing Erotica1 out on his ass is a paltry price to pay for that. Nobody will question that CCP is utterly within its rights, and sufficiently justified, to do so. And nobody will miss him anyways.
As is demonstrated in this thread, and in which I have been keeping count of individual posters and their expressed views, the community is overwhelmingly against what he has done as evidenced in the recording. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
591
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:24:00 -
[96] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:Many contestants say that the bonus round is the most fun they've ever had in EVE, even if they lose everything.
Except its not IN EVE.
Its in an OUT OF GAME "Bonus Room".
Scams are valid only WITHIN EVE. Not outside of it.
That is where you fked up, utterly. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
604
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:44:00 -
[97] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Any ban for Ero that isn't met with bans for the people who threatened to kill him or otherwise threatened violence will definitely NOT be good press for CCP at all. Ero would be within his rights to compile a list of them and subpoena CCP to get their RL names to press charges against some of them, and the damage that would do to CCP would be significant. Especially if CCP have not taken action over those threats.
No lol.
Let me explain.
Erotica1 is sourcing his victims from WITHIN EVE for purposes of scamming them OUTSIDE OF EVE.
He is predating on the EVE community for targets that he takes from within the game, by means of ingame scams, to an external environment where the "acceptability" of his scams is no longer present.
You can't extend an EVE scam into the real world. It has no legitimacy there, and becomes, infact, criminal.
He failed to recognise that though scamming is ok within EVE, it is NOT ok to extend those scams to an external out of game "Bonus Room" environment.
This is explicitly against just about everything in the EULA. This alone is all the reason CCP needs to terminate his account.
The above has nothing to do with actually happens in the recording (though it is reprehensible). CCP does not need to even listen to the recording to have grounds for terminating his account.
Erotica1, on his part, can try to press charges against Sohkar for what he said in the recording, but it will never work. 1) CCP is not responsible for what people say in OUT OF GAME CHANNELS, and therefore its pointless to subpoena them for Sohkar's identity. 2) Erotica1 can however try to subpoena whoever owns the TS server he conducts his private little "Bonus Room" torture cell in for his IP. Good luck with that! 3) Any judge/jury will recognise that Sohkars outbursts are a result of duress, piled with harassment, humiliating and degrading demands. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
610
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Posted - 2014.03.26 01:09:00 -
[98] - Quote
Pix Severus wrote:Not once did Erotica threaten physical violence against his client.
Its not "his client" when the interchange is taking in an environment OUTSIDE of EVE.
Have you lost all touch with reality?
"But Your Honor! I blew this guys stuff up because its possible IN EVE!"
You can't extend a scam outside of the context of EVE.
What is acceptable within EVE, in many cases becomes CRIMINAL if you attempt to extend it beyond it.
In the "Bonus Room", nobody is there as an EVE character or player. They are all there as independant, autonomous and culpable individuals just like everyone else sitting in every other non-EVE voice comm room on the entire planet.
That Erotica1 is actively, repeatedly and provenly sourcing and predating his victims from WITHIN the EVE community, for exploitation OUTSIDE of the game, is the issue here. You can't do that. Its not only against EULA, its also against laws depending on how you conduct yourself in that external environment. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
610
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Posted - 2014.03.26 01:16:00 -
[99] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:---As I stated though, once the racism and death threats came out, laughing time ended and they were asked to leave.
What happened on the TS is none of CCPs business or concern.
That Erotica1 is sourcing victims from within the game, for exploitation outside the game, is very much CCPs business. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
613
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Posted - 2014.03.26 01:24:00 -
[100] - Quote
WarProfit wrote:Merely smearing some dumb **** on the internet over his reaction to being played the fool is not exploiting them. Actually thats exactly what it is.
And its also the only motive for the activity. To exploit players sourced from EVE, as leveraged by the false promise of returning their assets, in a scam that has no business or providence extending beyond EVE, into a TS channel where he and his friends fap furiously to the suffering they inflict, record it, and share with friends.
That, is exploitation. |
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
613
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Posted - 2014.03.26 01:27:00 -
[101] - Quote
Agent Lazuli wrote:Yes letGÇÖs ban Erotica 1 Glad you agree.
Sooner its done, sooner everyone can go on with their merry EVE existence. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
613
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Posted - 2014.03.26 01:29:00 -
[102] - Quote
Varseop wrote:Bullshit. Death threats are inexcusable. His emotions are his responsiblity, no one else's. The threats where made outside of EVE, and hence are none of CCP's concern or business. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
613
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Posted - 2014.03.26 01:30:00 -
[103] - Quote
What happened on the TS is none of CCPs business or concern.
That Erotica1 is sourcing victims from within the game, for exploitation outside the game, is very much CCPs business. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
613
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Posted - 2014.03.26 01:33:00 -
[104] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:If you are going to quit IZ you should play the bonus room before you go. Could be a big winner. Come visit my bonus room. Its in my basement. Don't mind the chains. You'll get used to them. And this is ok, cos I am, afterall, just scamming you. Right? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
613
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Posted - 2014.03.26 01:38:00 -
[105] - Quote
Michele Bachmann wrote:You're intellectually raping me Come sit in my lap.
Also lol the desperation of Erotica1 cronies, Bonus Room fapcircle and other beneficiaries trying to get Ripard removed from his elected position as CSM for bringing this issue to light in his well-written article here:
http://jestertrek.blogspot.com.au/2014/03/the-bonus-round.html
I told you should have hired me. I'm can knock all your hack propagandist wannabes down with one hand. I've watched the entire production of "The White House", so I know my ****. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
616
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Posted - 2014.03.26 01:45:00 -
[106] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:Oh cool. More real life threats. You're a real peach aren't you.  What threat?
I offer you accomodation in my basement "Bonus Room". Ill double your water ration if you sing for me. And no, this is not a scam, you can trust me, cos we are still in EVE, right? All you have to do is follow me out of the game and down these stairs. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
616
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Posted - 2014.03.26 02:04:00 -
[107] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Then why didn't he leave the conversation?
Its irrelevant. Mail him and ask yourself if you wish for an answer to that question.
None of what happened in the TS "Bonus Room" is any of CCPs concern or business.
What is of concern to CCP and the community at large, is Erotica1s activities of actively predating on the community for victims with ingame scams that he extends to OUTSIDE THE GAME.
You cant do that. Its against the EULA.
Scams are fine within the game, it is NOT ok to scam people OUTSIDE the game. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
617
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Posted - 2014.03.26 02:14:00 -
[108] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:E1 did nothing against the EULA.
Erotica1 is predating on the community of EVE for victims he then exploits OUTSIDE of EVE.
That is in all ways, shapes and sizes against the EULA.
You can scam people inside EVE all you want. You CANNOT extend those scams to OUTSIDE EVE. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 02:48:00 -
[109] - Quote
"C. User Content
The System may allow you to communicate information, such as by posting messages in chat rooms, on bulletin boards and other user-to-user areas (collectively, "User Content").
User Content that you cause to be communicated to the System may not (i) violate any statute, rule, regulation or law; (ii) infringe or violate the intellectual property, proprietary, privacy or publicity rights of any third party"
Erotica1 is communicating, ingame, through means of chat functions and bulletin boards that he provides a service OUTSIDE of the game, namely the "Bonus Room".
What that "Bonus Room" has turned out to be, as evidenced by the recording, is a 2hr psychological torture, coerced by the players seized assets and leveraged against the false promise of its return if the person completes the humiliating, degrading and arbitrary demands issued to him by the persons located in this out of game environment, while simultaneously harassing, ridiculing and insulting him.
The conduct the victims are subjected to in this OUT OF GAME environment, once they have been successfully isolated and sourced out of the EVE client community, violates laws. The fact recordings of this "User Content" are made and distributed through chat rooms, bulletin boards and other user-to-user areas means the victims publicity rights as a third party, have been violated. At no time during the recording does anyone ask if the victim consents to the recording being distributed as "User Content", through "User Content" means.
This specific form of "User Content" that Erotica1 is orchestrating, results in victimisation of CCP clients, as sourced from within the game, for purposes of placing them under duress and subjecting them to humiliating, degrading and other negative conduct that is delineated against in 6.A.5.
"You may not submit any content to any chat room or other public forum within the Game that is harassing, abusive, threatening, harmful, obscene, libelous or defamatory, encourages conduct that could constitute a criminal offense or give rise to civil liabilities, or is unlawful in any other way, including without limitation the submission of content that infringes on a third-partyGÇÖs intellectual property rights."
To my view, CCP has two choices on this matter.
Either recognise that the TS environment represented as the "Bonus Room" constitutes a valid submission of "User Content" and is therefore to be considered subservient to all parts of the EULA, or to recognise that Erotica1 is predating on the client base of EVE by means of submitting User Content to redirect clients to his personal "Bonus Room" from within the game and its protective EULA, to where EVE players are subjected to this treatment by extension from the game.
Either case renders him in violation of the EULA.
The first would mean that all non-game environments that include any User Content, in any of its forms, becomes subject to the EULA. Its practically impossible.
The second is simply taking action against Erotica1 for predating on the EVE player base for the victims to fill his personal, out of game, "Bonus Room" (and subjecting them there to what is detailed above) under the pretense it is "User Content", which they can freely rule it not to be, or to be "User Content" which they deem to be unacceptable. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
619
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Posted - 2014.03.26 03:05:00 -
[110] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:...but not violating any rules, regulations, laws, etcetc. Because it happens outside of the game, (and even if it happens inside it) all local and international rules, regulations and laws apply.
As I have demonstrated earlier in this thread, if any of the victims wish to make a police report on how they where treated in the TS, and/or how they where coerced into that TS, that is their prerogative. Good luck as a defendant explaining to a Judge or Jury that: "Well, your Honor, it was a scam...!" The hammer will drop on you instantly.
There is so much legally wrong with what Erotica1 is doing that imo it could potentially be prosecuted as any number of crimes.
Some of you seem to have forgotten where the difference between the game and reality is.
You can't go around scamming people IRL, as you do in EVE. Which is exactly what this "Bonus Room" is. There is a massive set of complex systems that you can't even begin to imagine without years of legal studies which prevent you, me and everyone else from doing so.
Its a huge legal liability for CCP too, because who knows what could potentially culminate out of this degree of OUT OF GAME abuse of other players, including someone getting physically hurt or at worst some nut showing up to a Fanfest with a home-made pipebomb.
Just drop the garbage. The majority of the community does not want this kind of **** in their EVE experience. |
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
627
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Posted - 2014.03.26 03:17:00 -
[111] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:You realize that all your stuff in game - your ISK, your ships, all your pixels - are not really yours, right? They belong to CCP. So tell me what you were scammed out of? Nothing.
If you think this is about Erotica1s ingame aquisition of other players assets (as owned by CCP), then thats your own mistake. It isn't about that. Scamming within EVE, is fine. Acquiring assets from other players within EVE, is fine, as long as it does not violate EULA.
Predating on the EVE player base for purposes of exploiting them in an OUT OF GAME "Bonus Room" however, is very against the EULA.
Xuixien wrote:Consent to being recorded and consent to broadcast: Check. Proof needed.
Xuixien wrote:If you want to get legal... let's talk about the death threats, shall we?
Made under duress, and after extended period of harassment, humiliation and degrading.
Are you saying you think the "Bonus Room" is subject to the EULA? Be very careful what you say now. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
627
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Posted - 2014.03.26 03:24:00 -
[112] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:How do you figure out who's "and Co." in order to issue the bans?
Sounds like a witch hunt to me.
This is actually quite funny.
I've noticed and made note of no less than 8 different individuals saying the following: "I knew about the "Bonus Room". I've participated from time to time and listened in. But I didnt "really" like it."
Seems like the rats are already abandoning a sinking ship. Their fun is over. They know the hammer is falling. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
627
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Posted - 2014.03.26 03:34:00 -
[113] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote: Predating on the EVE player base for purposes of exploiting them in an OUT OF GAME "Bonus Room" however, is very against the EULA.
Again, please post the supporting elements of the EULA. Still waiting on that one. Already did. You must have missed it. Look back, its there
Xuixien wrote:
Happens at the beginning of every Bonus Round that gets recorded. "We record every Bonus Round to protect us against EULA violations" - right at the beginning of this one. The client proceeds with the Bonus Round - that's implied consent.
Oh my dear XUIXUIXUI. Listen up. First of all, the recording does not "protect you against EULA violations". That whole phrase is laughable :) Funny to see how stupid the perpetrators of this actually are. Almost as stupid as their victims, tbh. Second of all, implied consent=/=consent! Third, they didn't ask for the right to distribute the recording.
Xuixien wrote:Completely irrelevant, maybe it'll let you accept a plea bargain under "mitigating circumstances".
I see you've watched a few law soap operas, and completely misunderstood them! Mitigating circumstances and "plea bargains" are completely unassociated. The judge determines what are mitigating circumstances, by interpreting and applying the law. These apply to the SENTENCING. Lawyers make the plea bargains, these apply only to what charges are pursued against the defendant by prosecution. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
632
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Posted - 2014.03.26 03:38:00 -
[114] - Quote
How many of you ***hats are actually associated with the "Bonus Room" torture?
Louse "butbut proteshtin mah Bonus Room fappage" seem to be pouring out of the woodwork. Frankly all this reminds me of the Belgian Pedo-circle debacle. Bunch of perverts trying to protect and yet hide their activities all at once.
Raise your hands now so you can be counted and banned later.
The cancer of this seems to be wider than I had thought. Good thing Rip brought it to light. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
632
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Posted - 2014.03.26 03:44:00 -
[115] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:I don't take kindly to being call and asshat. Dont worry, I called you a three-star-hat. Everything is a-ok. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
634
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Posted - 2014.03.26 03:48:00 -
[116] - Quote
You didn't answer though. Don't think I didn't notice ;)
Do you think what happens in the "Bonus Room" is subject to the EULA? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
635
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Posted - 2014.03.26 04:01:00 -
[117] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Tor Norman wrote:
I am under the understanding that Ero always gets consent to broadcast the conversations. Just checked, after the first minute Ero clearly states that the conversation is being recorded and refers to an earlier conversation regarding the matter. It seems he didn't miss that important point this time.
You are correct, I went to listen to it again. I have retracted that part of my statement.
False.
1) There is no evidence that Sohkar had even entered the channel at that point or actually heard it 2) He says "EU-I-LA" Wtf is that. Never heard of it. 3) Sohkar at no point expresses consent to being recorded. 4) To prove implied consent, you have to include it expressly in the wording: "By participating in X, you consent to being recorded". All that implied consent does, is means the other party does not have to actually respond. It does not mean that you can imply that without including it implicitly in your wording. Cops say it like this, because many of the people they are questioning have no interest in answering ANYTHING, let alone giving consent if asked for it. The cops still have to state that the consent is implied. 5) At no point are rights given or asked for, to distribute the recording.
I swear, the more I learn about this "Bonus Room" stuff, the more disappointed I am by apparently what tards there are involved in orchestrating it. This is really amateur stuff. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
636
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Posted - 2014.03.26 04:11:00 -
[118] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:What happens on TS3 is not subject to EVE Online's EULA or TOS. I think I said that. Let me scroll up. Oh yes, I did.
How and from where was Sohkar sourced into the TS3? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
636
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Posted - 2014.03.26 04:14:00 -
[119] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:The only thing that's amateur is your playing lawyer. It's cute though, I love it. Post more.
No, I'm quite serious.
You guys figured you where so smart with all this, and got all the angles covered, but you've left so many gaping holes in it all that bespeak the basic stupidity of its architects.
I'm genuinely disappointed. Just as well that the whole house of cards falls around your ears. It was poorly constructed to begin with. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
636
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Posted - 2014.03.26 04:17:00 -
[120] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Given what you have posted thus far, only you and a few others are looking at the very least a warning or possible forum bans.
What are you talking about. |
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
636
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Posted - 2014.03.26 04:23:00 -
[121] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Xuixien wrote:What happens on TS3 is not subject to EVE Online's EULA or TOS. I think I said that. Let me scroll up. Oh yes, I did. How and from where was Sohkar sourced into the TS3? It doesn't matter. People are sourced to the EVE sub reddit... from EVE. And numerous other EVE blogs... from EVE. CCP has no jurisdiction to police these places. Sorry, you have no leg to stand on dude. Nothing that happened on TS3 was "entered into the System".
Where was Sohkar specifically sourced from into the TS3?
What specifically was he told to bring him there?
These are eminently important, because they potentially prove extending an ingame scam, to outside of it.
You have agreed that TS3 does not belong under the EULA, hence it is not "ingame", meaning any scam that is extended from within the game to outside of it, to TS3, becomes a legal liability as it is no longer under the auspices of the games context and EULA.
The scam within EVE, turns into a crime when you take it out of EVE.
You can't scam people IRL. Only in EVE. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
636
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Posted - 2014.03.26 04:25:00 -
[122] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote:I know right? We are easily going to get over 100 pages in under 24 hours. If this keeps up for a few days, the thread will be setting Eve records.
She's created about 4 posts in this thread. That aint much content. Don't get too excited. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
636
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Posted - 2014.03.26 04:29:00 -
[123] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:---] You should be the first against the wall, for sharing that abomination of cancer. YOU THINK THIS IS A GAME? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
637
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Posted - 2014.03.26 04:39:00 -
[124] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Oh I see, you're trying to play little semantic tricks here.
Fact is: You can't scam people out of something that they do not even own. None of his assets are owned by him, only CCP.
It is not criminal to scam people out of virtual currency in a game. If it is, by all means: Call the police.
Let us know how it works out.
Oh my. OH MY :D
Is that what you think is your loophole out of this?
HAHAHAHAHAHA
The assets or ownership of them is not material in what potential felonies this constitutes :) Is that what you think its about? Spacebucks?
And what happens in TS3, is no longer in the game, remember?
You really have no idea at the implications do you?
I have to take it back. You peeps have been even more stupid in how you built this, than your victims are for falling for it. |

Salvos Rhoska
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Posted - 2014.03.26 04:47:00 -
[125] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:And what assets did he lose IRL?
None.
Are you really so stupid and clueless that you think assets, virtual or real, have anything to do with what are the criminal elements and intent of this activity, as evidenced by the recording?
Please, tell me you are joking? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
639
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Posted - 2014.03.26 04:50:00 -
[126] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:
Felonies, lol.
You realize this thread is gonna be locked in buried within 48 hours and nothing will come of any of this?
And even if you tried... you don't have a case, simply put.
:)
You really dont get how deep in real criminal **** these people potentially are, do you? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
639
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 04:55:00 -
[127] - Quote
Mikey Aivo wrote:whats criminal about offering something for someone to do something for you?
You mean whats criminal about coercing a person and his wife into 2hrs of non-concensually recorded harrasment, humiliation, degrading and abuse, on false pretences? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
640
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Posted - 2014.03.26 05:04:00 -
[128] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Xuixien wrote:What happens on TS3 is not subject to EVE Online's EULA or TOS. I think I said that. Let me scroll up. Oh yes, I did. How and from where was Sohkar sourced into the TS3? You should know, you're him. Your last names are anagrams of one another. Im putting money on Salvos being Sohkars "wife" actually. I am not usually one for tinfoil, but I honestly think you may be right here. Oh dear.
Invite me to a Bonus Room and hear for yourself. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
641
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Posted - 2014.03.26 05:11:00 -
[129] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:KnowUsByTheDead wrote:---] You should be the first against the wall, for sharing that abomination of cancer. YOU THINK THIS IS A GAME? Definitely sokhars wife. You've tipped your hand at this point, time to come clean. You didn't understand the /b/ references, newfriend.
As I said earlier, but you where too stupid to read. Invite me to a Bonus Round. Hear for yourself.
The only defence Erotica1 has, is that the charges that can be brought against him, are logistically impossible to accomplish, due to jurisdiction limits. But if it ever is, no judge or court will understand this bullshit you have contrived for yourselves as a little tumor siddled on the ass of EVE. You think you've got all your angles covered, that you've been really smart (hurrr!) in how you designed it all, but its riddled with holes that any prosecutor could shove a jumbo jet through.
You have so lost the sense of reality between what is EVE, and what is outside of EVE, that you really can't tell the difference anymore, can you.
This **** does not fly IRL.
As I stated earlier:
Criminally coercing a person and his wife, by means of applying duress (by withholding propeety which is not even yours) into 2hrs of non-concensually recorded harrasment, humiliation, degrading and abuse, on false pretences?
And that these "Bonus Room" situatiins serve no other purpose than causing suffering in the victim to the ends of satisfying the sadism of the people listening to them as they occur, perpetrsting them, and sharing them afterwarss?
Even if none of the victims can never get their case prosecuted due to thenconstraintsnof jurisdiction, CCP itself is a legally and morally responsible entity to its clients, local and international law and its shareholders.
You think they want to be seen enabling your group of BonusnRoom fappers in this conduct? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
641
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Posted - 2014.03.26 05:18:00 -
[130] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Well, we WOULD, but were pretty sure you are a liability at this point seeing as that you are campaigning AGAINST the bonus round and such...
Well if its all legit and legal, whats to fear? |
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
641
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Posted - 2014.03.26 05:22:00 -
[131] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:Sorry mrs sokhar. You have me confused with someone else.
You really can stop pretending though. I personally think it's magnificent that you are defending your man, even if you are wrong about a lot of things.
No, Im actually your son and have travelled back in time to tell you how badly you ruined my life and that what you are doing with the dog is not "nice". |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
644
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 05:27:00 -
[132] - Quote
Bah, wont invite me to Bonus Room.
Too scared I'll tear the whole crap structure down around your ears.
I understand.
Anyways, Erotica1----> has to go.
Cant have people going around criminally coercing a person and his wife, by means of applying duress (by withholding property which is not even yours) into 2hrs of non-concensually recorded harrasment, humiliation, degrading and abuse, on false pretences.
No way that CCP wants to be seen enabling your group of BonusnRoom fappers in this kind of conduct. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
644
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 05:31:00 -
[133] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:As to the rest of your post. I am sorry you are so angry mrs. sokhar, but I really didn't have anything to do with what happened to your husband. When you talk to him though, tell him I think he should apologize for the racist comments and death threats. That was way over the line if you ask me.
Maybe Mr. Sohkar will show up at the next Fanfest to tell you what he feels about it all.... Personally.
And really, what you are doing with the dog is just... wrong. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
644
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 05:32:00 -
[134] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Also, can you please link to even a single criminal code you are referring to that has been breached.
They are back somewhere in this 100 page monstrosity. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
644
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Posted - 2014.03.26 05:35:00 -
[135] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:As long as he doesn't get drunk and utter death threats Well considering his level of agitation in the recording, I'd be quite worried if I was Erotica1. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
646
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Posted - 2014.03.26 05:45:00 -
[136] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:They are back somewhere in this 100 page monstrosity. I've been through every page and must have missed them because I didn't see any. Sorry to ask, but any chance you can link them again, or link to the post you are referring to?
Among them are blackmail, extortion, fraud, intentional infliction of emotional distress, psychological harassment, cyber-bullying and violations related to the recording and distribution of the recordings without consent (and no, there was no consent, no matter how much some morons claim it. its not there.) Thats just on the victims side. CCP is itself, to my mind, also in a position to sue for various breaches of contract on points of the EULA as relating to Erotica1 making use of their services in actions which constitute any of the above. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
646
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Posted - 2014.03.26 05:47:00 -
[137] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Why if Erotica 1 gets assaulted then he can get some real world isk out of the exchange as well. Its funny how ACTUAL breaking of laws works. Yes. Presuming he survives the encounter.
I wouldnt want a strung out violent ex-marine that I've psychologically tormented for 2hrs to the result of him smashing his desk, having a cause or intent to harm me... |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
646
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Posted - 2014.03.26 05:55:00 -
[138] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Remember guys, this is supposedly NOT going too far. Well you have to be alive to collect the IRL iskies.
Mario Putzo wrote:So you are saying that this man will commit murder? I said: I wouldnt want a strung out violent ex-marine that I've psychologically tormented for 2hrs to the result of him smashing his desk, having a cause or intent to harm me.
Winchester Steele wrote:Lol. You are so close to that edge.... Keep up the threats. I have not made any threat. I have no intent to bodily harm Erotica1.
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Now you are wishing for Erotica to slain during an assault? I have expressed no such wish. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
647
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Posted - 2014.03.26 06:20:00 -
[139] - Quote
Mikey Aivo wrote:actually its just scamming, theres no invasion of privacy at all, theres no reason to answer honestly, hell you dont even have to do this you can leave whenever you want. you chose to stay and make a fool of yourself
Except because it doesn't happen inside EVE, it is infact no longer "scamming", its illegal. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
647
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Posted - 2014.03.26 06:30:00 -
[140] - Quote
Mikey Aivo wrote:whats illegal about please send me your stuff?
ps
please contract me your items
There is nothing illegal about his ingame activities. There is a great deal illegal about him extending those activities to outside of the game, on false premise. And a great deal relating to that, that CCP should imo take very seriously.
In EVE, fine. Out of EVE, Id take the case if I could. |
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
647
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Posted - 2014.03.26 06:33:00 -
[141] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:
You're going to have to be more specific about what law he's breaking, and where it applies. Please provide citations. Some precedent-setting cases would also be nice.
Read the thread.
Also, you have not responded to mail. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
647
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Posted - 2014.03.26 06:35:00 -
[142] - Quote
Navi Annages wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Mikey Aivo wrote:whats illegal about please send me your stuff?
ps
please contract me your items
There is nothing illegal about his ingame activities. There is a great deal illegal about him extending those activities to outside of the game, on false premise. And a great deal relating to that, that CCP should imo take very seriously. In EVE, fine. Out of EVE, Id take the case if I could. @Chaka: This isnt about the items. Those he has already legitimately aquired, before the out of game illegitimacy begins. The clerk at the grocery store gave me a mean look today. I feel humiliated and raped as other customers saw the clerk gave me the negative look. Will you help me win this case?
Sure. For 500mil upfront, 100mil per hour of consultation, and 30% of any damages awarded. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
653
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Posted - 2014.03.26 06:44:00 -
[143] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:No, anything you have to say to me, you can say here. I deleted that mail the moment I received it, then blocked you from any in-game personal communications with me. It's a personal policy of mine. Based on past experience, people who think they can get the 'upper hand' in debate generally tend towards pulling the person that is outmatching them out of the public sphere first, before attempting various forms of passive-aggressive tactics to infuriate their target. If there is a public discussion going, keep it public..
That is your prerogative, but also your loss for not having read it.
I will hereby institute a personal policy to match your own, of ignoring all ingame communication from you. Period. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
656
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Posted - 2014.03.26 11:16:00 -
[144] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:Let's imagine for a moment that I'm on the CSM and this whole thread is about someone else. Lets not. But you can keep on dreaming. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
658
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Posted - 2014.03.26 11:32:00 -
[145] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:I certainly do hope many of my critics here take the time to read www.minerbumping.com because you will find thousands of examples of utter filth spewed by highsec miners. I assure you, we are the good guys. Take a look.
Dat misdirection.
*Points at topic* |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
658
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Posted - 2014.03.26 11:34:00 -
[146] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:A livestreamed event cannot be edited before viewing and would be unscripted. Please remove the tinfoil. Livestream can restrict and censure income communication.
This forum does all of this better, and is open to all. 120 pages of content already inform the discussion. If you refuse to discuss the matter here, that is your prerogative, but it reflects badly on you to do so. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
660
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Posted - 2014.03.26 11:37:00 -
[147] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:Big Lynx wrote: Fourth attempt:
Ok mate. Let's talk like adults. Concerning self-reflection, do you think you and your friends have gone too far?
read back a few pages. I have read every single post here. Please show me some respect and do the same.
You did not answer, though it was respectfully presented 4 times.
That is disrespectful of the person respectfully asking it.
Don't think that goes unnoticed. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
660
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Posted - 2014.03.26 11:43:00 -
[148] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:The funny thing is I already gave the very answers they seek, just a few pages back.
Where is it?
You have not answered it.
If you claim otherwise you would seem to be having an imaginary conversation. Nowhere here in this thread have you answered it. Believe me, I know. I've been here from the start. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
660
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 11:46:00 -
[149] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:Oh God, ask me in a 3 page thread, not 125 lol The question remains unanswered.
Let me refresh your memory:
Big Lynx wrote:Fourth attempt:
Ok mate. Let's talk like adults. Concerning self-reflection, do you think you and your friends have gone too far? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
662
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 11:57:00 -
[150] - Quote
Despite being asked 10 times in total by myself and others of where her magical mystery answer is, Erotica1 has not answered or pointed to where her answer is.
Big Lynx wrote: Fourth attempt:
Ok mate. Let's talk like adults. Concerning self-reflection, do you think you and your friends have gone too far?
This is very dishonest behavior from someone touting to claim to be coming out clean.
There is no answer provided by her to that question, anywhere in this thread.
Furthermore she has deliberately ignored and evaded it, which is extremely disrespectful conduct, especially when the question was presented in respectful and constructive manner, even in its repetitions.
Choosing instead to retire from the thread, after a sequence of transparent evasions and misdirections, rather than answer a simply question that was presented to her in a respectable fashion.
So yeah, her true nature begins to show. Not such a shiny varnish anymore. |
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
662
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:02:00 -
[151] - Quote
Some people should start answering the questions, instead of avoiding them. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
667
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:05:00 -
[152] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Like the so, so many you've ducked in the thread so far? I agree.
You might instead want to consider how many times you have directly tried to misrepresent my posts as to the effect of having any intent to cause anyone any physical harm.
They actually constitute libel, you know. And you perpetrated it more than once. You can't go around accusing people of having violent intent without proof.
I'd sit down and shut up if I was you.
Returning to the topic at hand, Erotica1 refused to answer the same simple question no less than 10 times. That says a lot about the degree of integrity or honesty we can expect. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
667
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:10:00 -
[153] - Quote
Erotica refused on no less than 10 separate occasions to answer a simple and respectful question put to her.
Instead choosing transparent evasion and the false claim that "she had already answered it", when infact no less than 4 people can attest to there actually simply not being that answer in the first place.
Dishonest. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
667
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 12:12:00 -
[154] - Quote
From my perspective, it would seem that the suffering and anguish he inflicts on the people in the Bonus Room is a source of great pleasure for him.
Else, why do it over and over. And there is demonstrably no other profit in the activity. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
669
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:25:00 -
[155] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:You've expressed that seeing him harmed in real life would be a source of great pleasure for you.
False. I have expressed no such thing.
I would however enjoy the vindication of the abused over the abuser. I do not wish any harm on Erotica1 in real life, nor would that be any source of great pleasure for me.
Unlike the great pleasure for Erotica1 in extracting suffering and anguish from the victims for several hours if necessary to psychologically "break" them in his "Bonus Room" of torture, as evidenced in the recording.
That is unequivocably proven by the recording, the repetition of this activity for an extended duration, and the fact that there is no profit to be derived from it except in the form of the gratification for sadists from the humiliation and degradation they place on another human being.
So you are deliberately misrepresenting my words, with intent to libel. Cease and desist.
Returning to topic, Erotica1 has refused to answer a simple question put to her no less than 10 times. This is extremely dishonest, and also considerably disrespectful towards the persons asking the question in a respectful manner. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
670
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:38:00 -
[156] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:--- Those are all false assertions and misrepresentations.
I have never said I would enjoy his suffering, either physically or from having his account revoked. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
670
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:43:00 -
[157] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Don't dodge that question, Salvos Shokar. You are unaware of the fact that Pollard informed me earlier this daythat he has a personal policy of deleting evemail before reading it. This resulted in the effort by me to amiably reconcile a perceived difference between us over another immaterial issue promtptly going into his trash, unopened, and him continuing hostilities regardless of my effort for reconciliation.
So I have reciprocally, just as he has, chosen to set a personal policy of mine own which delineates that I do not read anything he produces.
So no, I do not recognise the question, nor do I have to. And my reasons are justified above.
Not that any of this is your trolling business. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
671
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:53:00 -
[158] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:--
Yes, its regrettable. What necessitates it is the deliberate dishonesty and misrepresentation that is the only purpose of some posters here. They want to derail the thread and tackle any person they perceive as threats to their own interests by means of attacking them with immaterial irrelevancy and flat out false implications.
I'm gratified every-time I see a new poster. I really am and a lot of the stuff from those one-time posters is very very good. (except the obvious alts of the above-mentioned).
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
672
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:57:00 -
[159] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:That's not what I said. I said my personal policy was to remove attempts of private contact by people I don't personally know who I am involved in public debate with. Fair enough on the correction. But regardless, you will never know the contents of that mail now which is regrettable. And as your to personal policy, I chose to reciprocate with my own of ignoring your posts from here on. That letter was my attempt to reconcile a personal difference with you unrelated to ontopic discussion. You trashed it. That leaves me this option.
Please respect it as I have to respect yours, and do not address me again. I will not address you either. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
672
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:00:00 -
[160] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:---. Nowhere have I said I would enjoy his suffering. Nor would I.
I understand the distinction is difficult to perceive, but it is there nonetheless. In no instance would I take enjoyment from his suffering. |
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
672
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:04:00 -
[161] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:[--- I have no interest in your respect, nor do you deserve it from your reply above.
I will ignore all future correspondence from you, just as you ignored my mail. That is predicated on your original choice to trash my mail. The result is I do not recognise your posts either.
Waste your time addressing me all you want, I will not acknowledge you in any form from this point on. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
672
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:05:00 -
[162] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:What is laughter an expression of?? Joy.
But it is not his suffering that I would be laughing at, or enjoying.
You can try to pin this anyway you want, it will not stick, because its not there. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
672
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:10:00 -
[163] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:It was the righteous vindication of a victim. And to hear that said ABOUT A GAME is frankly shameful. I do not think it is shameful to be joyful at the vindication of the abused over the abuser. You can disagree, ofc. But that is my view. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
673
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:18:00 -
[164] - Quote
Lin Suizei wrote:Off-topic, but let's be honest - many bonus room customers don't interact with the community beyond being +1 to the concurrent player count. They will not be particularly missed. If you mean abusive doublers, yes they will not be missed. Except by those who enjoyed listening in on the suffering they inflicted. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
673
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Posted - 2014.03.26 13:20:00 -
[165] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Hope that's not too difficult since they were linked to earlier and I just can't see them.
What form that vindication takes is immaterial to me, in regards to the fact that I enjoy when the abused gets one back on the abuser. Whether its verbal, moral, physical, mental or virtual.
If you have difficult ascertaining that, I would refer you to Erotica1's rule system, by means of comparison. If you do not carefully read what I am saying, that is your fault, not mine, nor does it make me less honest.
In anycase, it is not his or anyone elses suffering that I would or do enjoy.
Can the same be said of Erotica1 and the rest of the listeners to the Bonus Room events? I think not.
Scipio Artelius wrote:Any chance you can take a minute just to link the actual criminal law that has been breached in this. Not a list, but a link to the actual law? No, there is not. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
675
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Posted - 2014.03.26 13:25:00 -
[166] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Sorry what. Just a link to the criminal codes you said you provided earlier in the thread.
No, it is not possible. Sorry. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
675
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:29:00 -
[167] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Because they don't exist. Correct. There are no links to criminal codes in this thread as far as I know. Correction, I just remembered someone linked Harassment somewhere. 2nd Correction, and a lose definition of cyber-bullying.
No links to region specific criminal codes though. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
675
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Posted - 2014.03.26 13:32:00 -
[168] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:[your claim that you linked the criminal codes was false. It was an error in haste on my part, now corrected. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
676
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:40:00 -
[169] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:You do realize that, to enter a bonus round, that person must approach E1's isk doubling service first? The entire scam, from beginning to end, which escalates to outside the game, is a selection process for victims.
Only those stupid or otherwise impaired enough to participate in the bonus round, ever approach Erotica1's doubling service in the first place. These stupid or labile victims are then exploited for purposes of enjoying their suffering in the out of game Bonus Room event by Erotica1 and his associated escrow functionaries, and other people inclined to enjoying the sound of another persons distress and suffering over the voice channel. This, ofc, after they have already been (legitimately) parted from ALL their assets.
It is predatory on the community of EVE, and its entire scam structure is designed to attract and entrap those who are stupid or labile enough to A) not be likely to overcome the ridiculous and asinine hurdles and demands placed on them in the Bonus Room process (for the enjoyment of all persons listening in) B) for some reason incapable of understanding that they are being exploited and taken advantage of in a malicious manner with harmful intent. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
677
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:46:00 -
[170] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Utterly false. I myself have had my isk doubled by Erotica1 twice. It's perfectly legit, provided you can actually read.
First of all, the fact that you had your isk doubled, does not mean that all had their isk doubled. Your claim to legitimising this is only by your own anectodal evidence.
Second, it does not disprove my assessment of the mechanics of the scam, as a designed selection process for potential stupid or labile victims who are unlikely to be capable of fulfilling the out of game demands (for the enjoyment of sadists listening in), are stupid enough to believe it in the first place and finally who are most likely to explode in emotional outburst sooner or later in the Bonus Round situation.
But ok. Prove it. Where is the recording?
Are you speaking about doubling, or the Bonus Room now? |
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
677
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Posted - 2014.03.26 13:54:00 -
[171] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:--- You overlooked several questions in my post. Please address them.
Have you participated in the Bonus Room?
If so, where is the recording? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
677
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:57:00 -
[172] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And after you realize this, you need to ask yourself: "Why did Ripard Teg specifically go to all these lengths to start this up, long after the actual event had occurred?"
Why not?
Would you like to buy a nice shiny tinfoil hat? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
677
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Posted - 2014.03.26 13:58:00 -
[173] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:--- Just because it seems you are stupid or labile enough to fall victim to the scams selection process, and not realise it, does not mean it is still not a selection process.
Let me repeat what I said earlier, so you can re-read it perhaps more attentivelly:
The entire scam, from beginning to end, which escalates to outside the game, is a selection process for victims.
Only those stupid or otherwise impaired enough to participate in the Bonus Round, ever approach Erotica1's doubling service in the first place. These stupid or labile victims are then exploited for purposes of enjoying their suffering in the out of game Bonus Room event by Erotica1 and his associated escrow functionaries, and other people inclined to enjoying the sound of another persons distress and suffering over the voice channel. This, ofc, after they have already been (legitimately) parted from ALL their assets.
It is predatory on the community of EVE, and its entire scam structure is designed to attract and entrap those who are stupid or labile enough to A) not be likely to overcome the ridiculous and asinine hurdles and demands placed on them in the Bonus Room process (for the enjoyment of all persons listening in) B) for some reason incapable of understanding that they are being exploited and taken advantage of in a malicious manner with harmful intent. C) Are most likely to become emotionally compromised under the duress and distress deliberately caused by the perpetrators, which aborts the Round and further feeds the sadistic joy of the listening participants.
Have you participated in the Bonus Round? If so, where is the recording? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
677
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:00:00 -
[174] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:No, but it would be nice to get an answer from our wonderful CSM representative, if he has the intestinal fortitude to do something besides sling things at people from behind his blog.
I suppose he just finally got around to writing it.
Would that not suffice as a reason? |

Salvos Rhoska
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:06:00 -
[175] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Prie Mary wrote: As far as im aware bonus room makes no attempt to let the victim know they are being recorded at the start. Literally the first thing said in the recording is that it is being recorded.
1) There is no evidence that the victim is even in the channel at the time it is said. 2) There is no evidence that the victim even hears that being said. 3) There is no expression of consent on the part of the victim to being recorded. 4) There is no implied consent on the part of the victim for being recorded, because it is not specifically stated by the recorder. 5) There is no expression of consent to distribution of the recording.
All of these are things the bunglers who designed this (in their minds extremely clever HURR DURRR) system of supposed safeguards against their activities being investigated by CCP or other authorities.
They are, ofc, completely inadequate, laughable and have no legal weight whatsoever.
Prie Mary wrote:I must of missed that during buffering my bad As no doubt have the overwhelming majority of Bonus Round participants also missed it, or otherwise been unaware of it. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:10:00 -
[176] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I just rolled my eyes so hard I gave myself a headache.. Oh. A young one. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:15:00 -
[177] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:False and unrelated implication stacked upon implication upon implication x10000
Can I ask you an honest question please?
Are you genuinely incapable of reading what is ACTUALLY said, rather than IMPLYING 1000 other things that NOBODY said? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:17:00 -
[178] - Quote
Galdrak wrote:i keep seeing you post that. i dont get what you mean, to me it seems totally off topic and a pointless post. His language capabilities are mostly restricted to the F1 key. Atleast he is consistent. |

Salvos Rhoska
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:20:00 -
[179] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:What Erotoica 1 does in game is not my play style, but at the same time I'm glad that Eve is a sandbox where just about anything goes. It may swing your opinion to know that there are quite many people who listen in either during the Bonus Round events, or listen to the recordings afterwards while the "clients" are being subjected to this.
Begs the question: Why. |

Salvos Rhoska
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:22:00 -
[180] - Quote
This is only one of many many Bonus Rounds. And even though he states he knew it at the end it at the end, that does not obviate the requirement to ask him FIRST, properly, for both the right to record him and to distribute it.
Can you guarantee that in every one the participant was PROPERLY and LEGALLY informed and asked for consent to be recorded, and for the distribution of the recordings? Can you? |
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:26:00 -
[181] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Because there's an endless supply of fully grown Muppets willing to hand over their dignity.
No doubt! But I meant on the part of the listeners. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:27:00 -
[182] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:There might be a recording somewhere of someone doing something potentially illegal on a teamspeak server somewhere - prove me wrong That sure is a compelling argument.
It is compelling.
I know you like to think that EVE is anonymous, and that all scamming is allowed in all its forms, but be careful you do not lose distinction on where EVE ends and the real world begins.
The line is there, and crossing it has immediate and serious legal repercussions. Its not a joking matter. |

Salvos Rhoska
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:31:00 -
[183] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:No doubt! But I meant on the part of the listeners. The same reason people listen to ventrilo harassment or prank calls or this - amusing overreactions to silly things.
An honest answer with no duplicity.
Much appreciated.
I dont mean it to reflect on you personally, but I think though some recordings of Bonus Room may be amusing for everyone involved, including the "client", I have a hard time believing that it is very common. Probably more like very uncommon, and mostly it is more like listening to someone urged to anger or sadness. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:33:00 -
[184] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote: All that happened in game was a guy gave his stuff away. And what happened outside of the game constitutes intentional infliction of emotional distress.
You see, what you need to understand, is that TS is not a "free" environment devoid of laws or the norms of the world.
They apply to you there, just as they do everywhere else. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:34:00 -
[185] - Quote
Batelle wrote:why would you even ask such a completely inane question? If he cannot, then it is possible that some persons rights have been violated in the Bonus Room activity. |

Salvos Rhoska
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:35:00 -
[186] - Quote
Heh, the "winners" are all fakes. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:47:00 -
[187] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:But when it's a racist, homophobic 'plane controller' who hands over his stuff to the most infamous 'scammer' in EVE history and rages intensely when said scammer won't give it back? Not so much.
But you didn't know he was, till after an hour or so of subjecting him to passive aggressive taunting, humiliating and demeaning tasks as well as frustration. Infact for all we know, he isnt actually a homophobe or a racist, even though he said those things in an emotional outburst.
The way you portray how you think of the victims, or "clients" as you refer to them, is interesting. How about this by comparison.
A pugdy, short, ms,piggylike and rather dim 30ish blonde woman walks into a biker bar dressed in what she thinks are clothes that would be attractive to men. She looks around upon entry, and decides she is going to try her luck on the loudest guy there. Shes a bit of a dits, but she really wants to get somewhere with this guy. He tells her "Hey baby, gimme half your moneh, and Ill double it fer ya". She does so. And he does, Her confidence in him is lifted. Her rather empty head begins to dimly contemplate possibilities. Later in the evening, he informs her,"hey sugarpie, you still got that money? well, give it to all to me and then we'll go somewhere we can REALLY make this something. She complies, and follows him outside of the bar and down a neighboring dark alley.
There, a bunch of strange men show up, and start demanding that she performs demeaning and humiliating tasks for them if she wants her money back, at the same time as passive aggressively taunting her. This continues for 2hrs until she finally can't stand it anymore, throws a huge fit and storms out of the alleyway with the men laughing at her back. They also recorded the activity for their friends to watch and enjoy.
Would that be an accurate analogy, do you think? How much sympathy do you feel for ms.piggy in this example, as compared to a client in the Bonus Room? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:54:00 -
[188] - Quote
Batelle wrote:which is important HOW? Lots of things are possible. This is a pointless hypothetical Important because the rights of EVE clients are important. Not only as players, but also as people.
Since these events occur outside EVE, there is a problem in how to ensure laws are followed. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:56:00 -
[189] - Quote
Batelle wrote:[You haven't even changed the analogy at all, you change the actors to make them appear more sympathetic each time. I cant change the analogy lol, or it wont be representative of its analog. This time I finetuned it for the sympathy factor, because I wanted to see how sensitive the person I was discussing was to that, as compared to his sympathy to the actual Bonus Room victims/clients.
What are you so angry at?
If you wish and think you can do better, then you represent by analogy, or give an example of an actual case. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 14:57:00 -
[190] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:DANG ! The misogyny is strong in this one. None intended. |
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 15:00:00 -
[191] - Quote
Just out of curiosity, do you think that 3rd parties have a right to record your telephone conversations without your consent? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 15:08:00 -
[192] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Just out of curiosity, do you think that 3rd parties have a right to record your telephone conversations without your consent? TS isn't a private phone line.  Well, it is, if set to be.
But on any phonecall, there could be an additional 3rd party on the other-end recording the interchange. (Not tinhatting that there is).
Would that 3rd party not vphave to confirm consent from you and the pereon you are calling in order to do so? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 15:11:00 -
[193] - Quote
Casinos have specific laws and regulations governing their behavior, as well as all other laws which apply.
Not to mention license requirements. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 15:15:00 -
[194] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Would that 3rd party not vphave to confirm consent from you and the pereon you are calling in order to do so? Firstly consent was given as far as I can tell, secondly you're blindly ignoring that in real life there are 3rd parties who can, and often do record phone calls without either parties consent; you may even have heard of these third parties, or voted for them, they're called governments.
I have heard of them. I have not heard of any EVE player being a government or having that right.
And no, consent is not confirmed.
1) There is no evidence that the victim is even in the channel at the time it is said. 2) There is no evidence that the victim even hears that being said. 3) There is no expression of consent on the part of the victim to being recorded. 4) There is no implied consent on the part of the victim for being recorded, because it is not specifically stated by the recorder. 5) There is no expression of consent to distribution of the recording.
If you don't confirm the above from every participant in the recording, the recording is infact illegal. Thats just how it is. That is how arbitrary the law is on matters such as this, and in general. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 15:21:00 -
[195] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:1) There is no evidence that the victim is even in the channel at the time it is said. 2) There is no evidence that the victim even hears that being said. 3) There is no expression of consent on the part of the victim to being recorded. 4) There is no implied consent on the part of the victim for being recorded, because it is not specifically stated by the recorder. 5) There is no expression of consent to distribution of the recording. Please provide a link to the recording you are talking about, becuase it is obviously not the one in the blog post being discussed.
It applies to Sohkar's recording.
None of the above can be confirmed from that recording. At the end, he does say "I know I am being recorded and this will be distributed", but that does not suffice to make it legal on the part of the recorder. These things have to be properly confirmed right at the start.
I realise this may seem silly to some people, but that is what most laws are on this matter. If you don't have the above confirmed from EVERY participant in the recording, it is illegal. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 15:25:00 -
[196] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:These things are confirmed at the start so that anything said can be kept/distributed, rather than risking disagreement part way though.
I'm sorry, but they are not, for the reasons I already outlined.
I know the perpetrators like to THINK they got this covered, but they don't. Sorry, thats just a legal fact. They half ass it. You have to confirm the consent both for recording AND distribution.
Neither of that happens in the recording. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 15:27:00 -
[197] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote: Casinos are regulated because of this scale. False.
And setting up gambling in your own home with other people is infact illegal in many jurisdictions, and even if allowed, is under strict provisions.
Everything is regulated. Including how you can and cannot behave on TS, and what you can and cannot do there.
There are laws covering all of this stuff. Mostly just nobody bothers to enforce them. But the laws are still there. The same applies to all these "grey areas" that Erotica1 is exploiting. They are not actually grey areas at all. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 15:34:00 -
[198] - Quote
Mikey Aivo wrote:When someone is recording in teamspeak theres a red dot to the right of their name A red light on a camera does not mean you have consented to being filmed.
Mikey Aivo wrote:Also when you start recording the clinet say user has started recording. That it starts recording does not mean you have consented to the recording. He can proceed with it, but it has no legal value without the consent if you try to argue it as evidence, as Erotica1 tries to argue the TS recordings in his own defence against the EULA kicking his ass right out of EVE.
Mikey Aivo wrote:End of the day though thays ero1's ts server he can do whatever he wants on there and anyone who decides to join him has done so on their own free will. If someone is recording you without your consent, that is not free will. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 15:36:00 -
[199] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:He consents to both. Please explain to me EXACTLY how you come to this conclusion.
Be as specific as possible. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 16:13:00 -
[200] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:He says he consents to both. He does not.
What recording are you listening to?
I can't understand how you can be so completely mistaken. |
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
688
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Posted - 2014.03.26 16:24:00 -
[201] - Quote
Jack Lennox wrote:I love EVE but for christsake, 150 pages later I don't give a **** about any of what you linked, nor is it relevant to this thread. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
688
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Posted - 2014.03.26 16:33:00 -
[202] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:---- Are you illilterate? The false implications you contrived are staggering. Its like you couldn't actually understand any of what was said, so you just MADE IT ALL UP instead..
Unbelievable. GTFO my EVE. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 16:44:00 -
[203] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:---. Yet none of the implications you contrived against the poster where even REMOTELY justified or following from what he had actually said. I mean it was unbelievably unrelated and far fetched. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 16:49:00 -
[204] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Once again, please quote the offending post in full, so that I can retort in full without having to lower myself to your level.
The blanking of quotes is to save space. I hate quote chains. I don't need to repeat everything you have said as an addendum in my post. It is sufficient that your name is on it so you know you are being addressed.
This is the one Im talking about: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4394057#post4394057
All he said, is that he thinks the FBI is really that efficient and meticulous (which I dont agree with, but whatever), but the CONTRIVANCES you get out of that by false implication. Full pants on head absolutely unbelievable. Its the kind of completely unrelated mindboggling utterances of conclusions so far removed from what was said, that the entire room just stops and stares at you. |

Salvos Rhoska
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Posted - 2014.03.26 16:56:00 -
[205] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Hey did you ever go to that bonus round last night? Or did you shy away after expressing desire to see Erotica 1 harmed at Fanfest? I hung around in belligerent voice for a bit after kindly being invited. We discussed Erotica1 a bit but he wasn't around. Mostly we discussed the ingame/outgame thing.
And I have no desire to see Erotica1 harmed. Don't come at me with the false implications, please. I already have 3-4 other guys set to do that on me. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 17:00:00 -
[206] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:You mean the reply to the post where Luminous Spirit used the words paedophilia, the censored form of sexual assault etc; in an entirely out of context manner while seeming to compare them to the loss of internet spaceships?
And I'm supposed to be the one who is illiterate?
Yes, that one.
He didn't compare pedophilia with loss of space ships in any way, not for significance or context.
Dont you understand that?
Please, tell me you can understand that. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 17:02:00 -
[207] - Quote
Your definition of bullying is incorrect though, despite your personal interpretation of the term. It is what the definitions of it say it is. Its not hard to look them up and accept that.
Repetition is not a condition of bullying. Even a single act can constitute it. Several people have explained this to you. I linked you a definition, yesterday, 2 other guys have linked you one today. And yet you still insist that bullying involves things that are not actually implicit in it at all.
Furthermore, Erotica1's activities ARE repetitive, though not towards the same victim. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 17:09:00 -
[208] - Quote
lollerwaffle wrote:Ok, so he compared someone willing subjecting themselves to harassment to paedophilia. What?! But that again, is a completely ridiculous conclusion! He did not even remotely compare those.
I'm sitting here literally shaking my head repeatedly trying to comprehend how it is you can so absolutely misread and miscomprehend what someone else is LITERALLY writing. As in what is there in the words. As in the objective expression, as a sequence of letters that when combined form words that have specific definitions.
Its like you are reading with your imagination. I don't see where the connection is between what you THINK you are reading, and what is actually there in letters and words for you to read.
I need to go for a walk. Seriously, this is upsetting to me. What is the point of language and communication if you DONT READ the words and understand them as close to the meaning and intent as possible of the person who expressed them. I mean why else even fking bother? |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 17:14:00 -
[209] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:These people
Funny. I seem to recall "these people" being used to identify various other associations of players with mutual ingame interests.
For example, Erotica1 and "these people" who listen to the abuse in the Bonus Room. Hows that for a reprehensible bunch. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 17:17:00 -
[210] - Quote
Ok, I will translate for you. He made no contextual or value comparison between pedophilia and spaceships, whatsoever. Nor did he in anyway imply that Erotica1 or anyone else is even remotely related to pedophilia I say that with all sincerity. There was no cause for alarm or getting upset at him. Its not there in the text. None of that is there or the case.
He did not mean or say what you "think" he did, in anyway, shape or form. |
|

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 17:23:00 -
[211] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:And I have no desire to see Erotica1 harmed.
You're a liar. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4386456#post4386456Salvos Rhoska wrote:If someone roundhouse kicked Erotica1, I would laugh and applaud :)
And Im completely within my rights to say and think so, both offline and here on this board.
You can think Im a "bad" person for that, but no law or contract prevents me from laughing or applauding, nor for saying I would.
It wouldnt be me kicking him, and its entirely within my purview how I, as an unassociated autonomous individual, choose to respond to that with laughter and clapping, or to say that that would be my reaction. Emphasis mine.
READ THE REST OF THE QUOTE. |

Salvos Rhoska
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Posted - 2014.03.26 17:27:00 -
[212] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:We all did. You say you approve of violence against E1. Where in the quote does it "say you approve of violence against E1?"
It does not say so. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 17:32:00 -
[213] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:"Ya guys no where except for the bolded underlined part where I would laugh and applaud him being kicked! or last night when I said id be content if he were assaulted at fanfest (page 100 or so) and Id be totally chill if that assault was a murder(page 105 or so)"" Meh... |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 17:35:00 -
[214] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Would you like me to also quote the rest of the posts where you condone the use of real life violence being inflicted upon Erotica? Or are you going to shut up before you look like a complete and utter tool? Well if you are going to raise such a serious allegation against me, you had better do so.
And you had better do so convincingly because I will therafter contact CCP that you are making very serious false and libelous allegations towards me. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 17:44:00 -
[215] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:But believe me, Savlos argued so vehemently about it that he definitely has some stake in it. Thanks for vouching I am not him, or his wife. The similarity in names is amusing, but entirely coincidental.
I just really don't agree with what Erotica1 is doing.
On a moral level and from what I perceive as really serious problems with the legality of it.
I understand that some people enjoy the recordings, but they genuinely seriously make me cringe on a very fundamental level.
I don't like people being exploited so severely for their stupidity, lack of understanding, or possible labileness. This is a game. I dont want people to suffer in it like this, no matter who they are.
I appreciate that EVE involves, endorses and supports scamming. I appreciate that player aggression is also one of the things that makes this game great. But listening to these recordings I can't, as a person, support it. To me, its like standing by and watching some weak kid get bullied, or an elderly woman being harassed. I understand the circumstances are different. The financial element of the assets is minute, but its something I want gone from the game.
I can't ever just co-exist with it in EVE. I will always resist it in anyway that I can for as long as either it, or I, whichever comes first, are still in the game. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 17:50:00 -
[216] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Why if Erotica 1 gets assaulted then he can get some real world isk out of the exchange as well. Its funny how ACTUAL breaking of laws works.
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Yes. Presuming he survives the encounter.
[/quote]
What are you trying to say with this?
You are the one speculatively hoping that he gets assaulted so he can get some real world isk out of the exchange.
To that I respond sardonically that yes, but you have to survive the attack to get those iskies that you referred to in your speculative hope that he gets assaulted to get them.
Mario. You are barking up the wrong tree. Nothing has been said here that you think has. This is ********. Stop it. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2014.03.26 17:54:00 -
[217] - Quote
None of it actually says what you are imagining it does.
I am reporting both of you to CCP for making serious false libelous charges that I have any intent to bodily or otherwise harm Erotica1 |

Salvos Rhoska
717
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Posted - 2014.03.27 08:21:00 -
[218] - Quote
Can someone please post the full list of tasks required, as well as what is required to fulfill those tasks, in order to win the "Bonus Room"? |

Salvos Rhoska
718
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Posted - 2014.03.27 08:25:00 -
[219] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Can someone please post the full list of tasks required, as well as what is required to fulfill those tasks, in order to win the "Bonus Room"? Good Lord! It's a SCAM.  get a life
My question still stands. |

Salvos Rhoska
718
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Posted - 2014.03.27 08:30:00 -
[220] - Quote
Insulting the speach impediment already constitutes grounds for enacting the EULA and legal action.
What exactly are the tasks required to be fulfilled, and how are they to be completed, in order to win the Bonus Room? |
|

Salvos Rhoska
718
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Posted - 2014.03.27 08:34:00 -
[221] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:]What exactly are the tasks required to be fulfilled, and how are they to be completed, in order to win the Bonus Room? You win the bonus room by never participating in the first place.[/quote]
Then it is shown that the Bonus Room constitutes nothing but an arena for humiliation and degradation of the victim.
I ask again, what exactly are the tasks required of the victim in order to win the Bonus Room? |

Salvos Rhoska
719
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Posted - 2014.03.27 08:39:00 -
[222] - Quote
I have never, anywhere, said that I am lawyer. I can however freely say that I am a plumber or lumberjack, even if I am not.
I ask again, what exactly are the tasks required of the victim in order to win the bonus room? |

Salvos Rhoska
720
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Posted - 2014.03.27 08:49:00 -
[223] - Quote
The assets are already transferred to the Bonus Room perpetrators before it begins.
If there is no legitimate way to win the Bonus Room, then it can he shown to be merely facilitate humiliatiin and degradatiin on the victim, with no actual recourse to winning it, and no additional profit to the perpetrators.
Because there is no further ISK to be made from it, and there is no way for the partcipant to legitimately win, the only remaining motive is intent to cause harm and purpose is malice towards the victim, till they remove themselves from the situation.
I ask again, what is required of the victim in order to win the bonus room? |

Salvos Rhoska
721
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Posted - 2014.03.27 08:56:00 -
[224] - Quote
Souxie Alduin wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:The assets are already transferred to the Bonus Room perpetrators before it begins.
If there is no legitimate way to win the Bonus Room, then it can he shown to be merely facilitate humiliatiin and degradatiin on the victim, with no actual recourse to winning it, and no additional profit to the perpetrators.
Because there is no further ISK to be made from it, and there is no way for the partcipant to legitimately win, the only remaining motive is intent to cause harm and purpose is malice towards the victim, till they remove themselves from the situation.
I ask again, what is required of the victim in order to win the bonus room? FFS! YOU CAN'T!
Then it can be shown that the Bonus Rooms only function is an arena to harm the victim.
It then categorically falls under the EULA as an event and instance the only purpose of which is to abuse and harm the victim. |

Salvos Rhoska
721
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Posted - 2014.03.27 09:00:00 -
[225] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I believe they have more than half a dozen winners so far. Likely more.
Prove it.
What exactly is required of the victim in order to win the Bonus Round in the Bonus Room? |

Salvos Rhoska
722
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 09:14:00 -
[226] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:If the "if there is no legitimate way to win..." is in fact true, then that would be a reasonable conclusion, but not the inly possible ine, none of which are particularly pleasant.
What is the legitimate way to win?
What is required of the victim in order to win the Bonus Round?
Answer specifically. |

Salvos Rhoska
723
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 09:22:00 -
[227] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:I already did answer specifically.
I have no idea because i have no more experience in the bonus room than you do.
You did not answer what is required of the victim to win the Bonus Round, because in the very next sentence you openly admit that you have no idea what is required to win.
Is it so, that it is required that the victim must submit to commensurate abuse, humiliation, degradation, and the assignment of arbitrary demands, in order to win? |

Salvos Rhoska
723
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 09:26:00 -
[228] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:--- Then you did not answer what specifically is required of the victim in order to win the Bonus Round.
Is it so, that it is required that the victim must submit to commensurate abuse, humiliation, degradation, and the assignment of arbitrary demands, in order to win? |

Salvos Rhoska
723
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 09:30:00 -
[229] - Quote
What exactly and specifically must the victim do in order to win the Bonus Round?
Is it so, that it is required that the victim must submit to commensurate abuse, humiliation, degradation, and the assignment of arbitrary demands, in order to win? |

Salvos Rhoska
723
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 09:35:00 -
[230] - Quote
What exactly and specifically must the victim do in order to win the Bonus Round?
Is it so, that it is required that the victim must submit to commensurate abuse, humiliation, degradation, and the assignment of arbitrary demands, in order to win? |
|

Salvos Rhoska
726
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 10:21:00 -
[231] - Quote
Danalee wrote:The participant of the bonus room --- has to show full faih.
Faith is a subjective immaterial quantity.
There is no way to "show" faith. You cannot pull faith out of your pocket and show it to people.
Therefore this cannot have been the condition fulfilled, and shown, by the winners, in order to win the Bonus Room, because it is impossible to do so.
I repeat:
What exactly and specifically must the victim do in order to win the Bonus Round?
Is it so, that it is required that the victim must submit to commensurate abuse, humiliation, degradation, and the assignment of arbitrary demands, in order to win? |

Salvos Rhoska
726
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 10:27:00 -
[232] - Quote
What exactly and specifically must the victim do in order to win the Bonus Round?
Is it so, that it is required that the victim must submit to commensurate abuse, humiliation, degradation, and the assignment of arbitrary demands, in order to win? |

Salvos Rhoska
726
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 10:57:00 -
[233] - Quote
What exactly and specifically must the victim do in order to win the Bonus Round?
Is it so, that it is required that the victim must submit to commensurate abuse, humiliation, degradation, and the assignment of arbitrary demands, in order to win? |

Salvos Rhoska
726
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 10:59:00 -
[234] - Quote
Danalee wrote:You asked that a few times and got answered even more times.
False. Neither question has been answered.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:What exactly and specifically must the victim do in order to win the Bonus Round?
Is it so, that it is required that the victim must submit to commensurate abuse, humiliation, degradation, and the assignment of arbitrary demands, in order to win? |

Salvos Rhoska
727
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 11:10:00 -
[235] - Quote
What exactly and specifically must the victim do in order to win the Bonus Round?
Is it so, that it is required that the victim must submit to commensurate abuse, humiliation, degradation, and the assignment of arbitrary demands, in order to win? |

Salvos Rhoska
727
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 11:14:00 -
[236] - Quote
Dieterlin wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:What exactly and specifically must the victim do in order to win the Bonus Round?
Is it so, that it is required that the victim must submit to commensurate abuse, humiliation, degradation, and the assignment of arbitrary demands, in order to win? There is no win condition. I'm pretty sure this has been established. It's just for Ero1's amusement.
If there is no win condition, then all the Bonus Room constitutes, is an arena for abuse of the victim. |

Salvos Rhoska
729
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 11:49:00 -
[237] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:People have won. The scam wouldn't work if you couldn't win.
What exactly and specifically must the victim do in order to win the Bonus Round? |

Salvos Rhoska
729
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 12:03:00 -
[238] - Quote
Abrei-Kaii wrote:He claims to live in the U.S Legal age for marriage in the U.S is 18. Please try harder Legal age for marriage in the US can be as low as 15 in some states, with parental consent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_marriage_in_United_States_of_America
Try harder yourself before you tell others to. Thanks. |

Salvos Rhoska
729
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 12:06:00 -
[239] - Quote
Endovior wrote:You keep asking that question. It should be noted that nobody but Erotica1 can give a factual answer that question, and he has no reason to do so. It strikes me that the real answer is something along the lines of 'convince E1 that you deserve to be showered with imaginary space money'. If so, then winning the game depends on some combination of your attitude, and E1's mood at the time. No sensible person doubts the subjective and arbitrary nature of the contest, and it's entirely reasonable to conclude that many of the people who win are in some way affiliated with E1. Probably not all, though; available evidence suggests that there are winners out there. Enough to justify playing? Probably not, but certainly enough to lure in marks.
I keep asking them exactly, as you point out, because they have not been answered. I will keep asking them until they are answered. If CCP chooses to prevent my asking it, that is their prerogative, and only theirs.
What exactly and specifically must the victim do in order to win the Bonus Round?
Is it so, that it is required that the victim must submit to commensurate abuse, humiliation, degradation, and the assignment of arbitrary demands, in order to win? |

Salvos Rhoska
729
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 12:18:00 -
[240] - Quote
CCP can and should, imo, ask Erotica1 the following:
What exactly and specifically must the victim do in order to win the Bonus Round?
Is it so, that it is required that the victim must submit to commensurate abuse, humiliation, degradation, and the assignment of arbitrary demands, in order to win? |
|

Salvos Rhoska
729
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 12:32:00 -
[241] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:]Again, no he wasn't, the guys running the bonus room were unfailingly polite. What about insulting the victim's speech impediment? |

Salvos Rhoska
729
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 12:34:00 -
[242] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:---] You pinned a guy against a wall with a two-ton truck, as a result of what he said on the internet. |

Salvos Rhoska
729
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 12:36:00 -
[243] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:What about insulting the victim's speech impediment? Didn't happen. Did. |

Salvos Rhoska
729
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 12:43:00 -
[244] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Crumplecorn wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:What about insulting the victim's speech impediment? Didn't happen. Did. It was more of an off the cuff remark. They did not bang on about it. Lol. |

Salvos Rhoska
732
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 12:54:00 -
[245] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:
"Unless something is against the rules its okay" is such a shallow and dimwitted way of thinking about things.
Do you seriously need somebody to tell you what is okay and what isn't?
This is a game at advertises than you will be scammed, robbed, stabbed in the back and killed again. CCP are not going to ban people because your feelings got hurt.
Then lets play the recording over speakers at the next Fanfest at the unveiling of the Monument, as a shining testament to that.
It is, afterall, what is advertised, as you say. |

Salvos Rhoska
734
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 12:59:00 -
[246] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:baltec1 wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:
"Unless something is against the rules its okay" is such a shallow and dimwitted way of thinking about things.
Do you seriously need somebody to tell you what is okay and what isn't?
This is a game at advertises than you will be scammed, robbed, stabbed in the back and killed again. CCP are not going to ban people because your feelings got hurt. Then lets play the recording over speakers at the next Fanfest at the unveiling of the Monument, as a shining testament to that. It is, afterall, what is advertised, as you say. We put up rage mails at almost every fanfest. This isnt new.
Ok, lets do it then. |

Salvos Rhoska
734
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 13:02:00 -
[247] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:just to get at someone they don't like.
Strawman. This is about his activities, not him personally. |

Salvos Rhoska
740
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 13:07:00 -
[248] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I am literally dying to know, so if you don't provide a clear and cogent response, you're torturing me. Someone inform CCP that this person is in need of psychiatric assistance immediately, and to inform emergency health professionals in his locality. |

Salvos Rhoska
740
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 13:09:00 -
[249] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:You have lied, demonstrably and repeatedly, throughout this thread. I've said it before and I'll say it again - I definitely believe you when you claim to be a lawyer. But you're not a very good one.
That is demonstrably a lie. I have at no point anywhere claimed to be a lawyer. |

Salvos Rhoska
740
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 13:15:00 -
[250] - Quote
Alana Charen-Teng wrote: Sohkar is an air traffic controller AND a lawyer? God help us!.
I am not Sohkar. CCP can confirm this and I can prove it at any request to do so over voice.
Nor have I claiimed anywhere to be either an air traffic controller or a lawyer.
Keep trying. |
|

Salvos Rhoska
741
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 13:17:00 -
[251] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:]He edited it out a while back when I pointed out that it's illegal to claim to be a lawyer in most developed nations.
That is false and a lie.
CCP can confirm that I have never made the claim here to be a lawyer, nor edited out any such claim. |

Salvos Rhoska
741
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 13:20:00 -
[252] - Quote
Danalee wrote: Wait, are you trying to lure people out of the game by ingame means to hurt their feelings? BULLY!
I am not.
But thanks for confirming by exclusion that is infact what Erotica1 is doing. |

Salvos Rhoska
741
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 13:23:00 -
[253] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:You have lied, demonstrably and repeatedly, throughout this thread. I've said it before and I'll say it again - I definitely believe you when you claim to be a lawyer. But you're not a very good one. That is demonstrably a lie. I have at no point anywhere claimed to be a lawyer. What the actual **** dude? Yes you most certainly have, and watch this space cuz imma be linkin another post of yours real soon. You are a despicable individual that I'd no sooner spit on for fear of dehydration.
Go ahead and try. I have not made the claim anywhere to be a lawyer, nor edited any comment of such claim.
So you are stating you would commit a crime against me, by spitting on me? Thanks for violating the EULA. |

Salvos Rhoska
741
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 13:25:00 -
[254] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:You have lied, demonstrably and repeatedly, throughout this thread. I've said it before and I'll say it again - I definitely believe you when you claim to be a lawyer. But you're not a very good one. That is demonstrably a lie. I have at no point anywhere claimed to be a lawyer. What the actual **** dude? Yes you most certainly have, and watch this space cuz imma be linkin another post of yours real soon. You are a despicable individual that I'd no sooner spit on for fear of dehydration. He edited it out a while back when I pointed out that it's illegal to claim to be a lawyer in most developed nations. I only just discovered this, I even remember the post but couldn't remember the exact page. I know it came before the one where someone says to him, "I understand you're a lawyer and I am as well". Edited my above with a little extra but no link, since it's pointless now.
That is a lie and libel.
I have at no point claimed to be a lawyer, nor edited any claim to that effect.
|

Salvos Rhoska
741
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 13:29:00 -
[255] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:You have lied, demonstrably and repeatedly, throughout this thread. I've said it before and I'll say it again - I definitely believe you when you claim to be a lawyer. But you're not a very good one. That is demonstrably a lie. I have at no point anywhere claimed to be a lawyer. What the actual **** dude? Yes you most certainly have, and watch this space cuz imma be linkin another post of yours real soon. You are a despicable individual that I'd no sooner spit on for fear of dehydration. Go ahead and try. I have not made the claim anywhere to be a lawyer, nor edited any comment of such claim. So you are stating you would commit a crime against me, by spitting on me? Thanks for violating the EULA. Yes you did, and yes you have. See at the top of the post where you made the claim where it says "Edited by...." Yeah, I can see it. Don't play coy with me. I found all the posts where you said you would enjoy seeing physical violence applied to Ero as well and could link all of them right now to demonstrate your depravity, which would also demonstrate your hypocrisy while you sit there and call anyone depraved yourself. You are a liar, and anyone with a modicum of reasonable sense on this thread can see and has seen it plain as day. But that should work in your favour, since you're a lawyer and all. Liars make the best lawyers.
A lie and libel.
I have at no point here claimed to be a lawyer, or edited any comment to that effect. CCP can confirm this.
You however have demonstrably expressed intent to commit a RL crime against me by spitting on me. That is a violation of TOS and EULA.
You have also testified to having pinned a man against a wall to within an inch of his life, with a two ton truck, with an initial intent to kill him. |

Salvos Rhoska
745
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 13:36:00 -
[256] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:
A lie and libel.
I have at no point here claimed to be a lawyer, or edited any comment to that effect. CCP can confirm this.
You however have demonstably expressed intent to commit a RL crime against me by spitting on me.
Do you even read? I said I WOULDN'T waste my saliva on you because I wouldn't think it worth the dehydration effect. Like, seriously, I won't even hold this against you and this isn't an insult, but are you maybe dyslexic? Because I don't think anyone is THAT stupid. Dyslexia I could understand and it is in no way a question I ask intending to insult. I'm just hoping for the sake of everything ever that you are dyslexic because the only alternative is stupidest and most ignorant person I've ever met. And that is a long list of stupid, ignorant people from crowds of antivaxers, quack naturapaths and geocentrists to name a few. It would also explain why you so easily lose track of your own claims. Actually.... no, no it wouldn't. That would be dementia.
Do you deny that you have testified here to having driven a two ton truck at a man, therby pinning him against a wall to within an inch of his life, with an initial intent to kill him? |

Salvos Rhoska
749
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 13:50:00 -
[257] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:
A lie and libel.
I have at no point here claimed to be a lawyer, or edited any comment to that effect. CCP can confirm this.
You however have demonstably expressed intent to commit a RL crime against me by spitting on me.
Do you even read? I said I WOULDN'T waste my saliva on you because I wouldn't think it worth the dehydration effect. Like, seriously, I won't even hold this against you and this isn't an insult, but are you maybe dyslexic? Because I don't think anyone is THAT stupid. Dyslexia I could understand and it is in no way a question I ask intending to insult. I'm just hoping for the sake of everything ever that you are dyslexic because the only alternative is stupidest and most ignorant person I've ever met. And that is a long list of stupid, ignorant people from crowds of antivaxers, quack naturapaths and geocentrists to name a few. It would also explain why you so easily lose track of your own claims. Actually.... no, no it wouldn't. That would be dementia. Do you deny that you have testified here to having driven a two ton truck at a man, therby pinning him against a wall to within an inch of his life, with an initial intent to kill him? Yes, I deny that. I never said anything about my intent. Are you trying to claim I had an intent? I seem to remember making it plain as day that what I was doing was an emotional reaction. As far as I knew, he'd just caused my mother serious harm. And he wasn't within an inch of his life, he was completely unharmed. Unharmed isn't within an inch of life. Like, not even any bruising. The guy was scared shitless though and we never saw him again. Do you know what I don't deny? That I acted irrationally and without thought. Do you know why? Because I'm capable of taking responsibility for my choices, even the ones that I leave to emotion. As any sane, not-at-all insecure person is capable of doing. Why is this relevant? Did you have a point? Were you going to attempt to address my character again based on your terrible reading comprehension skills? Because my point was to demonstrate why ignoring what Sokhar did or brushing it off as 'justified' demonstrates that this is just an irrational Ero1 witch hunt. So, make your point. And try to make a good one this time lest you never be taken seriously on these forums again. Not that anyone has so far, of course.
Here is your testimony:
Alana Charen-Teng wrote:I drove a two-tonne truck straight at him, slammed on the breaks when I realised what I was doing and stopped it with him pinned between a bullbar and a garage door. He was unharmed, thank ****, because I would have been entirely responsible for any injury he sustained. And I would have ACCEPTED that responsibility for my EMOTIONAL reaction.
If he was pinned, that literally means he was unable to move, meaning the inch is validated.
He was literally, and figuratively, within an inch of losing his life due to your actions.
If you had driven the truck one inch closer, it would have killed him or harmed him.
Your emotional state is sufficient, and certainly not an excuse of, to prove the mens rea of intent to harm. It was not an accident. You deliberately drove a two-ton truck directly at him.
That you did not kill him, does not change that you initially had the intent to kill him, whether emotional or not. You had that intent until you "realised what I was doing and stopped it with him pinned between a bullbar and a garage door." That is why you drove a two-ton truck at him in the first place.
Emotional state does not change whether a crime has been committed or not, it is only a possible mitigating circumstance or, depending on the crime in question, an element necessary to the proof of burden for the prosecution to prove intent. |

Salvos Rhoska
753
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 14:00:00 -
[258] - Quote
There is no witch-hunt.
This is the community expressing its condemnation of Erotica1's conduct.
Its up to CCP to deliberate on what, if anything, is to be done, but everyone here is perfectly justified to express that they do not condone his conduct. |

Salvos Rhoska
753
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 14:04:00 -
[259] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Here is your testimony: Alana Charen-Teng wrote:I drove a two-tonne truck straight at him, slammed on the breaks when I realised what I was doing and stopped it with him pinned between a bullbar and a garage door. He was unharmed, thank ****, because I would have been entirely responsible for any injury he sustained. And I would have ACCEPTED that responsibility for my EMOTIONAL reaction. If he was pinned, that literally means he was unable to move, meaning the inch is validated. Oh you're so CUTE when you're trying to demonise someone that made you feel bad. No. He was not with an inch of his life. Not figuratively, not literally. The human body is quite soft. One more inch might have bruised him a little at most. As it was, he was unharmed. Like, LITERALLY unharmed. That's the correct use of the word literally, by the way. I learned it on The Oatmeal. Quote:Your emotional state is sufficient, and certainly not an excuse of, to prove the mens rea of intent to harm. It was not an accident. You deliberately drove a two-ton truck directly at him. Wait, let's reword that a moment, shall we? Just to clarify the point I'm making since you seem to be missing it ON PURPOSE. Quote:Sokhar's emotional state is sufficient, and certainly not an excuse of, to prove the mens rea of intent to threaten and abuse. It was not an accident. He deliberately threatened abused Erotica 1 with racial and homophobic slurs. As you so insatiably enjoyed stating earlier on in this thread. Checkmate.
Why are you not in jail? You should be according to your own testimony. Only reason you are not, is the victim did not press charges.
You think it is legal to deliberately drive a two-ton truck at people to the result of pinning them against a garage-door? |

Salvos Rhoska
757
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 14:47:00 -
[260] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote: You think it is legal to deliberately drive a two-ton truck at people to the result of pinning them against a garage-door?
Nope, prove intent to injure, could those people have moved out of the way at any point?
He proved it himself in his testimony.
He accelerated the truck at the person with intent to harm, then "realised" the potential consequences, and hit the brakes. His intent changed in the process of the act, the latter replacing the former Nonetheless the initial intent is proven. Fortunately for both of them in time to not cause bodily harm to the victim. Furthermore, having the intent to cause someone harm, is not a crime. Acting on it to the result of harm, is. Nonetheless his initial intent is clear from his own words.
The resulting intent as fulfilled in the resulting action though, is also illegal. It is not legal to deliberately drive a two-ton vehicle towards people and pinning them against a garage-door with it.
And no, whether the victim can get out of the way of someone deliberately driving their vehicle at them, is not material to the perpetrators actions being illegal. |
|

Salvos Rhoska
757
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 15:08:00 -
[261] - Quote
"Since 1973Amnesty International-áhas adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:
"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."
Erotica1 inflicts systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, through means of several hours of subjecting the victim to demeaning and humiliating tasks alongside harassment and insulting from himself and his peers, in order to accomplish their purpose of causing the victim to leave the situation, against the will of the victim to fulfill the Bonus Rooms demands for the reward promised in the contract of the Bonus Room between the victim and the perpetrators.
It is not necessary to be restrained or prevented from being able to remove oneself from the situation, for it to constitue torture, and in this incidence, it is exactly that which the perpetrators are leveraging against the victim.
An analogy would be a wife remaining in an abusive relationship with a husband who inflicts upon her systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, because she knows that if she files for divorce, all the assets, including the house, would remain in the property of her husband, as they are in his name. What the husband is doing to her, though superficially enabled by her remaining, nonetheless constitutes torture, as he is accomplishing the purposes of his will, namely of her remaining there for him to torture, against the will of the latter to leave the situation, as he knows full well she can and will not because then she is homeless and destitute.
That Erotica1 causes the victims acute psychological pain, is evidenced by the psychological state the conduct they are subjected to in the Bonus Room results in. The victims are obviously suffering from it. Of that there is no question. |

Salvos Rhoska
758
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 15:18:00 -
[262] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:"Since 1973Amnesty International-áhas adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:
"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter." Entering the bonus room is voluntary. Such typing, many long post, much wasted time, wow.
As in my example, entering into marriage union with a husband who later begins to torture her, is also voluntary.
It is immaterial to Erotica1s conduct fullfilling the definition of torture provided above, and as demonstrated in my reasoning here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400021#post4400021 |

Salvos Rhoska
758
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 15:23:00 -
[263] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:As in my example, entering into marriage union with a husband who later begins to torture her, is also voluntary.
It is immaterial to Erotica1s conduct fullfilling the definition of torture provided above. Torture is not a part of marriage. Entering the bonus room is part of entering the bonus room.
Lolwhat?
You just confirmed that entering into the Bonus Room is entering into torture.
Freudian Slip? You just revealed your cards, sir. |

Salvos Rhoska
763
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 15:38:00 -
[264] - Quote
To those posting that what happens in the Bonus Room does not constitute torture:
"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:
"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."
Erotica1 inflicts systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, through means of several hours of subjecting the victim to demeaning and humiliating tasks alongside harassment and insulting from himself and his peers, in order to accomplish their purpose of causing the victim to leave the situation, against the will of the victim to fulfill the Bonus Rooms demands for the reward promised in the contract of the Bonus Room between the victim and the perpetrators.
It is not necessary to be restrained or prevented from being able to remove oneself from the situation, for it to constitue torture, and in this incidence, it is exactly that which the perpetrators are leveraging against the victim.
It is also not necessary for the victim to have entered involuntarily into the situation in which the torture occurs. It is immaterial how the victim ends up in the situation in which he is tortured, all that is material, is whether what the victim is subjected to in that situation, constitutes torture as defined above.
An analogy would be a wife remaining in an abusive relationship with a husband who inflicts upon her systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, because she knows that if she files for divorce, all the assets, including the house, would remain in the property of her husband, as they are in his name. What the husband is doing to her, though superficially enabled by her remaining, nonetheless constitutes torture, as he is accomplishing the purposes of his will, namely of her remaining there for him to torture, against the will of the latter to leave the situation, as he knows full well she can and will not because then she is homeless and destitute.
In Erotica1s Bonus Room torture itself is the MEANS whereby they accomplish their goal and will, of, sooner or later, forcing the victim to leave the situation, at which point Erotica1 wins the Bonus Room. This is achieved by inflicting on the victim systemaric and deliberate acute psychological pain.
That Erotica1 causes the victims acute psychological pain, is evidenced by the psychological state the conduct they are subjected to in the Bonus Room results in. The victims are obviously suffering from it. Of that there is no question.
A Dev has been made to sing for his ship. But he did not suffer acute psychological pain in the process. It is evident from the recording, however that Sohkar and his wife, did. |

Salvos Rhoska
763
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 15:46:00 -
[265] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:To those posting that what happens in the Bonus Room does not constitute torture:
"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:
"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter." Entering the bonus room is voluntary. I'll probably be gone in an hour, try again then. Regards, Crumplecorn
False.
The will of the perpetrators in the Bonus Room is for the victim to leave the situation. The will of the victim is to fulfill the demands of the perpetrators, in order to fulfill the contract and receive the reward he was promised.
The Bonus Room perpetrators enable and enact their will of causing the victim to leave the situation, by applying systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain (which constitutes torture).
That is the mechanism whereby they "win" the Bonus Room.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
763
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 15:48:00 -
[266] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Bolded an important qualifier there for emphasis. Last I checked, nothing was done against Sokhar's will so, even in the broadest definition, as provided by Wikipedia where you got that from, no torture took place.
See:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400280#post4400280 |

Salvos Rhoska
763
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 15:50:00 -
[267] - Quote
Asuka Langley S wrote:---
Obvious throw-away alt disregarded.
Try again.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
763
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 15:53:00 -
[268] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:The will of the perpetrators in the Bonus Room is for the victim to leave the situation. The will of the people torturing the victim is for him to stop being tortured? I wish, for your sake, that mental gymnastics were an Olympic sport.
The will of the perpetrators is for the victim to leave the Bonus Room. That is how the perpetrators win the Bonus Room.
This is accomplished by torturing him, as outlined here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
766
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 15:59:00 -
[269] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:The will of the perpetrators is for the victim to leave the Bonus Room. That is how the perpetrators win the Bonus Room. Since you're not getting this I'll try to make it simpler: I tell you I'm going to punch you in the face until you walk away from me. You stand still and take the punches to the face without moving. This is not torture.
Threatening me with physical violence is a crime. Punching me in the face is a crime. Continuing to punch me in the face though I stand still is a crime.
Try again.
For elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in the Bonus Room constitutes torture: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219
Torture is internationally pronounced illegal in almost every single jurisdiction on Earth.
Any even superficial indication that torture might be occuring requires immediate investigation by all concerned parties and authorities. |

Salvos Rhoska
766
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 16:05:00 -
[270] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:That entire 'elaboration' relies on the false premise that Sokhar was there against his will. Your 'elaboration' falls apart with a false premise. Do you even logic?
This is clearly explained in my post here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219
The will of the perpetrators in the Bonus Room is that the victim leaves the room. The will of the victim in the Bonus Room is to fulfill the contract and receive his reward.
The perpetrators of the Bonus Room facilitate their will, that the victim leaves the room, by subjecting him to torture. |
|

Salvos Rhoska
767
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 16:09:00 -
[271] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:No, it's not clearly explained at all, it's white-washed away with excuses and sensationalism.
No scam can happen, no 'torture' would have taken place, if Sokhar had given Ero nothing. If Sokhar, at any point, had chosen differently, we wouldn't be having this conversation at all.
As is specifically outlined in my post, the circumstances under which torture occur, are immaterial to whether torture is occuring.
"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:
"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."
Erotica1 inflicts systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, through means of several hours of subjecting the victim to demeaning and humiliating tasks alongside harassment and insulting from himself and his peers, in order to accomplish their purpose of causing the victim to leave the situation, against the will of the victim to fulfill the Bonus Rooms demands for the reward promised in the contract of the Bonus Room between the victim and the perpetrators.
It is not necessary to be restrained or prevented from being able to remove oneself from the situation, for it to constitue torture, and in this incidence, it is exactly that which the perpetrators are leveraging against the victim.
It is also not necessary for the victim to have entered involuntarily into the situation in which the torture occurs. It is immaterial how the victim ends up in the situation in which he is tortured, all that is material, is whether what the victim is subjected to in that situation, constitutes torture as defined above.
An analogy would be a wife remaining in an abusive relationship with a husband who inflicts upon her systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, because she knows that if she files for divorce, all the assets, including the house, would remain in the property of her husband, as they are in his name. What the husband is doing to her, though superficially enabled by her remaining, nonetheless constitutes torture, as he is accomplishing the purposes of his will, namely of her remaining there for him to torture, against the will of the latter to leave the situation, as he knows full well she can and will not because then she is homeless and destitute.
In Erotica1s Bonus Room torture itself is the MEANS whereby they accomplish their goal and will, of, sooner or later, forcing the victim to leave the situation, at which point Erotica1 wins the Bonus Room. This is achieved by inflicting on the victim systemaric and deliberate acute psychological pain.
That Erotica1 causes the victims acute psychological pain, is evidenced by the psychological state the conduct they are subjected to in the Bonus Room results in. The victims are obviously suffering from it. Of that there is no question.
A Dev has been made to sing for his ship. But he did not suffer acute psychological pain in the process. It is evident from the recording, however that Sohkar and his wife, did.
Torture is internationally held illegal in almost every jurisdiction on Earth, including ALL international legal agencies.
Any even superficial indication of torture occuring, needs to be investigated thoroughly by all concerned authorities. |

Salvos Rhoska
767
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 16:14:00 -
[272] - Quote
Qalix wrote:---BTW, you can stop posting now. Nothing you say or do is going to change any minds. It will, however, increase the page count, dilute your and other arguments, and place the really good tidbits out of reach of everyone who isn't willing to wade through 300 pages of trolling/reverse trolling/bad poasting.
It gives CCP cause to thoroughly investigate and audit Erotica1's activities in any extension to the service they provide.
For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in the Bonus Room constitutes torture: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
768
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 16:18:00 -
[273] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:[CCP are quite aware you are a moron though, as is anyone that is capable of rational thought due to you demonstrating it of yourself time and again, as well as your outright lies, so they will ignore anything you say anyway. Why do you keep going?
Insults and ad hominem disregarded.
I keep going because it is my prerogative to do so, and I will not stand by idly while people are potentially being subjected to what constitutes torture, in a game that I love. For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
768
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 16:22:00 -
[274] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:It's not ad hominem if it's demonstrable. And it's not ad hominem if your arguments have been addressed. Which I've done.
It is ad hominem. You apparently don't know the definition of the term. Just like how you didn't know the definitions of the terms "sadism" and "masochism" earlier.
ad ho-+mi-+nem [ad hom-uh-nuhm -nem, ahdGÇÉ] Show IPA adjective 1. appealing to one's prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to one's intellect or reason. 2. attacking an opponent's character rather than answering his argument. For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
769
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 16:26:00 -
[275] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Still failing at reading comprehension I see. Let me break it down.
1. Your stupidity is demonstrable, not prejudice.
2. I addressed your argument.
Your insults and ad hominem are demonstrable, and your arguments demonstrably false. I have answered and quashed them all, one after the other.
Go back to deliberately driving two-ton trucks at people. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
770
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 16:45:00 -
[276] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Also, if you (salvos), as a self-described lawyer I have not anywhere claimed that I am a lawyer.
And how do you know I have not already spoken at TED? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
771
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 16:49:00 -
[277] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:The feedback in this thread is very much appreciated, and we've been watching it since it was first posted. While we can appreciate that tensions are high, please remember to keep within the forum rules when posting. We'll have more information for you guys in the coming days. 
Hello CCP Falcon, I submit the following for CCP consideration:
"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:
"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."
How the above applies to the "Bonus Room":
Erotica1 inflicts systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, through means of several hours of subjecting the victim to demeaning and humiliating tasks alongside harassment and insulting from himself and his peers, in order to accomplish their purpose of causing the victim to leave the situation, against the will of the victim to fulfill the Bonus Rooms demands for the reward promised in the contract of the Bonus Room between the victim and the perpetrators.
It is not necessary to be restrained or prevented from being able to remove oneself from the situation, for it to constitue torture, and in this incidence, it is exactly that which the perpetrators are leveraging against the victim.
It is also not necessary for the victim to have entered involuntarily into the situation in which the torture occurs. It is immaterial how the victim ends up in the situation in which he is tortured, all that is material, is whether what the victim is subjected to in that situation, constitutes torture as defined above.
An analogy would be a wife remaining in an abusive relationship with a husband who inflicts upon her systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, because she knows that if she files for divorce, all the assets, including the house, would remain in the property of her husband, as they are in his name. What the husband is doing to her, though superficially enabled by her remaining, nonetheless constitutes torture, as he is accomplishing the purposes of his will, namely of her remaining there for him to torture, against the will of the latter to leave the situation, as he knows full well she can and will not because then she is homeless and destitute.
In Erotica1s Bonus Room torture itself is the MEANS whereby they accomplish their goal and will, of, sooner or later, forcing the victim to leave the situation, at which point Erotica1 wins the Bonus Room. This is achieved by inflicting on the victim systemaric and deliberate acute psychological pain.
That Erotica1 causes the victims acute psychological pain, is evidenced by the psychological state the conduct they are subjected to in the Bonus Room results in. The victims are obviously suffering from it. Of that there is no question.
A Dev has been made to sing for his ship. But he did not suffer acute psychological pain in the process. It is evident from the recording, however that Sohkar and his wife, did.
Torture is internationally held illegal in almost every jurisdiction on Earth, including ALL international legal agencies.
Any even superficial indication of torture occuring, needs to be investigated thoroughly by all concerned authorities. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
771
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 16:59:00 -
[278] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:It is not necessary to be restrained or prevented from being able to remove oneself from the situation, for it to constitue torture, and in this incidence, it is exactly that which the perpetrators are leveraging against the victim. It is if you're going to call it torture, since your own definition specifies that it must be against "the will of the latter [victim]," and its demonstrable that the victim was willing.
It is normal and justified to assume that nobodies will includes being subject to torture.
The will of the two parties are as follows:
-The will of the perpetrators in the Bonus Room, is to force the victim to leave the Bonus Room. This is how they win the Bonus Room.
-The will of the victim is to fulfill the terms of the contract, and receive the reward. That is how they win the Bonus Room (supposedly).
In order for the perpetrators to win, and to actualise their will, they systematically and deliberately inflict acute psychological pain on the victim (as constitutes torture according to Amnesty International, as sourced in my sig)
This is how the perpetrators in the Bonus Room "win".
Torture is the mechanism whereby they enact that. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
771
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 17:06:00 -
[279] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Well, since not acute pain was inflicted, and it was certainly not done against the "victims" will, you've pretty much invalidated everything but the most amusingly preposterous arguments calling for sanctions in this thread... and those arguments need no help from you to be ignored as complete rubbish.
It is obviously apparent to any observer that Sohkar and his wife are suffering acute psychological pain as a result of the torture they are systematically and deliberately subjected to.
Ranger 1 wrote:Reading text or singing a song upon REQUEST is not "acute pain" by anyone's standards, and if you can end the supposed "torture" at any time by simply leaving a TS channel it can hardly be considered "against his will". Read above.
Ranger 1 wrote:Frankly the act of willfully submitting yourself to acute pain and humiliation of your own free will, when you are free to leave at any time, is called Masochism... not torture.  As demonstrated in the link in my sig, the circumstances whereby a person enters into a situation where torture is enacted on them, is immaterial to whether it is torture. And as also demonstrated in the link in my sig, torture does not predicate the victim being restricted from leaving the situation in which he is being tortured.
Neither of these considerations are material to whether what is being done to them, constitutes torture. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
771
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 17:12:00 -
[280] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Okay, now YOU'RE the one drinking the erotica1 kool-aid. There is not, in fact, a pot of gold for the idiots that stick around the longest. The perps win no matter what.
Then the only remaining justification or motive for the entire Bonus Room situation, is causing suffering to the victim. This simplifes the consideration, and makes it even easier to condenm this activity. It does, however, not relate to whether this constitutes torture or not.
Batelle wrote:You criticized me earlier when I brought up contract law, and I explained how there are multiple reasons why no such contract can exist.
This is because you do not understand that the agreement between perpetrator and victim to enter the Bonus Room situation, constitutes a contract.
If you are going to argue that there can be no contract because there are no actual, real or owned assets involved, I'm sorry, but you are wrong.
Batelle wrote:wtf are you talking about. You're supposed to be explaining how the "victim" isn't a voluntary party to the events in question. Nobody is voluntarily party to torture.
That exactly is the mechanism whereby the perpetrators force the victim out of the Bonus Room, which constitutes a "win" for them.
Nobody will stay in a situation where they are subjected to torture, if they can escape it. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |
|

Salvos Rhoska
772
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 17:20:00 -
[281] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:TIL singing Gummy Bears to the Rescue is "acute psychological pain".
Acute psychological pain, in this context, is something that is experienced by the victim as a result of someone elses actions inflicting that pain upon them.
If it causes someone acute psychological pain to listen to Gummy Bears, then that is what the individual experiences as a result of being subjected to it.
It is immaterial what causes that pain, if pain is what the victim experiences as a result of it.
It is clear from the recording that Sohkar and his wife are experiencing acute psychological pain as a result of the deliberate and systematic actions towards that end by the perpetrators in the Bonus Room.
And as I have demonstrated, inflicting that acute psychological pain, systematically and deliberately, is the mechanism whereby Erotica1 "wins" the Bonus Room, by forcing them to leave it, sooner or later. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
775
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 17:27:00 -
[282] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:LordOfDespair wrote:The fact that you can walk away doesn't excuse scumbag behavior. No, but it does mitigate it.
False.
Being able to walk away from a situation in which you are being subjected to torture, does not stop the actions being taken against you from being torture.
Being restrained from leaving the situation is furthermore not a pre-condition to something fulfilling the definition of torture.
Voluntarily entering into a situation in which you are then subjected to torture, is also not a pre-condition to it fulfilling the definition of torture. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
775
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 17:31:00 -
[283] - Quote
Its really quite simple.
In order for Erotica1 to win, he must force the victim to leave the Bonus Room.
In order for the victim to win, he must fulfill every single demand that Erotica1 places upon him.
Erotica1 then applies psychological torture to the victim, to force them to leave the Bonus Room, whereupon he wins the Bonus Room.
This isn't rocket science.
Elaboration in my sig. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
775
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 17:33:00 -
[284] - Quote
Andski wrote:This is bullshit and you clearly have no clue what you're talking about
Something vaguely fulfilling an open-ended definition of "torture" does not, in fact, make it torture
See the elaboration in my sig, for the specifics of how this conduct constitutes torture. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
776
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 17:37:00 -
[285] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote: False.
Being able to walk away from a situation in which you are being subjected to torture, does not stop the actions being taken against you from being torture.
Being restrained from leaving the situation is furthermore not a pre-condition to something fulfilling the definition of torture.
Voluntarily entering into a situation in which you are then subjected to torture, is also not a pre-condition to it fulfilling the definition of torture.
Cite one example where a court (ANYWHERE) agreed with this nonsense, when discussing TORTURE.
Cite one example where a court (ANYWHERE) requires that in order for actions taken against someone to constitute torture they must:
-Be restrained or otherwise incapable of leaving the circumstances in which their are being tortured. -Where if they voluntarily entered a situation where it later culminates into torture, that that initial act negates the subsequent actions taken against the victim from being classifiable as torture.
The definition of torture, does not require the victim to be restrained, nor that they have been brought involuntarily into the circumstances where torture occurs.
Thats just how it is. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
776
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 17:41:00 -
[286] - Quote
Andski wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:See the elaboration in my sig, for the specifics of how this conduct constitutes torture. "Guys it fits the most open-ended, most vague definition of torture there is therefore it it is torture" ~ some sheltered kid from suburbia
You are demeaning the severity of the act of torture with this.
It is as wrong, and as illegal, no matter what the degree of pain inflicted, as long as the victim experiences it as acute, according to the definitions of Amnesty International. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
776
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 17:42:00 -
[287] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Waiting for Salvos to weigh in on "reasonable expectation". He takes a while to answer my questions, and usually goes on a tangent instead. :)
What are you talking about. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
777
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 17:49:00 -
[288] - Quote
Andski wrote:"I was on a B-52 that got shot down over Vietnam and the Viet Cong tortured me for years"
"That's nothing man I know a guy who was tortured by some dudes over the Internet in a teamspeak server"
I'm pretty sure any vet,ever, who has been tortured, or anyone who has been tortured, would agree that torture, no matter how slight some may perceive it as, is still wrong, in ALL its occurances. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
777
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 17:50:00 -
[289] - Quote
Where is the post in which you asked me these things? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
777
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 17:52:00 -
[290] - Quote
Andski wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:I'm pretty sure any vet,ever, who has been tortured, or anyone who has been tortured, would agree that torture, no matter how slight some may perceive it as, is still wrong, in ALL its occurances. yeah I'm sure that a former POW who was subjected to actual torture will most deffo sympathize with this guy
Torture is wrong in all its forms, and wherever it occurs. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |
|

Salvos Rhoska
777
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 17:53:00 -
[291] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Where is the post in which you asked me these things? Are you going to answer my question, or just do what you usually do when I ask a question: Try to stall answering it?
You said you had asked it in a previous post that I had not answered.
Where is the post with the concern I did not answer? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
779
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:03:00 -
[292] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:So, you gonna answer, or dodge? You accused me of not having answered a question from a previous post.
Where is that previous post? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
786
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:05:00 -
[293] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:This is Dinsdale you're talking to dude, EVE's version of Alex Jones. Don't even try to get rational discourse out of him. Whereas you are EVEs version of a self-professed autist who once deliberately drove a two-ton truck at a guy stopping just short of killing him by pressing him against a garage-door.
Glasshouse. Pot and kettle. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
786
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:07:00 -
[294] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:Damage control and avoiding assets and accounts being seized for EULA violations, as well as potentially IRL legal prosecution
Sorry, can you repeat that? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
786
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:10:00 -
[295] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote: When someone is free to up and terminate a situation, at any time, on less than a moment's notice . . . they are not being tortured
That is a commonly held false belief.
"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter." - Amnesty International.
There is no requirement of being constrained from leaving the situation, or for being subjected to torture involuntarily, in the above.
At law, according to this definition, it is a question of the "purpose of the former against the will of the latter."
In the specific case of Erotica1's activities in the Bonus Room, torture is the mechanism whereby they force the victim to abort the Bonus Room participation, thereby granting a win to Erotica1.
It is exactly by a person LEAVING the torture he is subjected to within the Bonus Room, that facilitates Erotica1 wins. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
786
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:13:00 -
[296] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:I'm pretty sure this is why torture victims need to be physically restrained.
Just sayin'.
False.
Show me a legal definition that requires the victim be physically restrained for acts taken against them to constitute torture. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
795
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:15:00 -
[297] - Quote
Sorry. didn't read a word you said. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
795
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:16:00 -
[298] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:I presented two links which you have yet to address.
When you address that, you will be allowed to talk to me about other aspects of this issue.
Thank you.
Sorry, where is the post with these links?
And I don't need your permission to talk to you. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
795
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:19:00 -
[299] - Quote
Desivo Delta Visseroff wrote:[b]By that I mean, CCP should not enact any TOS/EULA changes as a result of this indecent
I agree entirely.
The current TOS/EULA is perfectly sufficient to cover and remedy this fringe incident of what Erotica1 and his Bonus Room have been up to as an extension of CCP's provided service.
All that is needed, is exercising the existing TOS/EULA to take action against this particular incident, and remain wary of anything as extreme happening again. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
795
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:21:00 -
[300] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:When you undercut someone on the market, you've tortured them if they get mad ("acute psychological pain") in order to accomplish your purpose (selling your items) against your victim.
Good one!
So in your opinion market PVP constitutes torture?
A novel notion, but one you are nonetheless free to hold if you wish, and as incorrect as it might be. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |
|

Salvos Rhoska
795
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:22:00 -
[301] - Quote
Effect One wrote:Go and find a legal definition of torture if you want to discuss legal principles.
Amnesty International is the world leader in legal counsel on matters of human rights.
If you wish to provide other definitions, feel free to do so. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
795
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:23:00 -
[302] - Quote
U seem mad. R u mad?
Worried no more recordings from Bonus Room to fap to?
AAaaaawwww! -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
800
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:26:00 -
[303] - Quote
Sorry! Still not reading :D
Remiel Pollard wrote:you've been sperging.
Ok, I peaked, did you just say "sperging"?
MY LAWWDDYY THE IRONY! -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
800
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:30:00 -
[304] - Quote
Capt Starfox wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:KnowUsByTheDead wrote:Damage control and avoiding assets and accounts being seized for EULA violations, as well as potentially IRL legal prosecution Sorry, can you repeat that? Did you seriously just mis-quote that?
Its not an accurate quote...? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
800
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:34:00 -
[305] - Quote
Jake Warbird wrote:So this entire thread is about 'feelings'? Man... Feelings -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
800
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:36:00 -
[306] - Quote
Many good points.
Have you read the post submitted in my sig? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
800
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:37:00 -
[307] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Can you verify your hypothesis about their intent?
What is the intent then? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
800
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:40:00 -
[308] - Quote
lollerwaffle wrote:I was trolling all along! Yes, you where. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
800
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:42:00 -
[309] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:So he's shifting all his stuff ahead of the banhammer? Good to know - are you taking notes CCP?
Yes, that's exactly what's happening, which is why we're publicizing the event. [/quote] Well yes, ofc.
You have to get all the escrow agents known so they can run the operation till Erotica1 can get his **** together.
And the operation can't lose the reputation as the "only legit torturing ISK doubler in EVE" right?
I love how you say "we". That makes you complicit in whatever comes out of this. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
800
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:44:00 -
[310] - Quote
Capt Starfox wrote:Yes, or no will suffice. Hmm let me think back to it....
Yes, my memory seems to recall the original quote saying pretty much what that says. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |
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Salvos Rhoska
803
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:48:00 -
[311] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Yeah but we've already established you have a terrible memory so we're gonna need more than that to go on. Funny that, I was gonna say the same thing about you.
You found that post yet that you swore you remembered, in which I would have claimed to be a lawyer?
No? Memory failing? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
803
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:49:00 -
[312] - Quote
DEERRHUNRREEDDDERR!
*champagne and cigar* -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
803
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:51:00 -
[313] - Quote
Jerome Gouillot wrote:But now i gonna buy a new toon and make him a pharisaic political correct moralist that will urge the whole universe to live within his own set of morale. Sorry, but Divine Entervention already has that niche covered :/ -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
803
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:51:00 -
[314] - Quote
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:Big Lynx wrote:Big Lynx wrote:The one who gets the 6000th post gets 100mill from me! quoting myself Iz MINE! -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
805
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:58:00 -
[315] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:We (BU) had him on our TS3 the other night, and we were arguing about this issue. He specifically said, in just this way "And can I ask where you got your law degrees?" to one of the people in the channel.
You misheard. I asked "and where did you guys get your degrees?" when you guys actually thought I would be stupid enough to reveal any information about myself, by either confirming or denying, for purposes of Doxxing me.
Notice, I did not ask for "law degrees", I asked for "degrees".
I'm sure you had it recorded (without my consent btw). Go ahead and review your data.
I have nowhere claimed that I am a lawyer, nor have I edited any comment on these boards to remove such a claim.
Funny how people keep insisting that I have though, but nobody has any evidence to prove so. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
805
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:01:00 -
[316] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:So it's exactly like if I point you and ask you to sing a song on TS3 or a I kill you, right? No, its like we will torture you until you leave the Bonus Room, and we win. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
805
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:03:00 -
[317] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Kristalll wrote:So it's exactly like if I point you and ask you to sing a song on TS3 or a I kill you, right? Yes it's exactly like that, because they have your virtual spaceship. False.
See:
"No, its like we will torture you until you leave the Bonus Room, and we win." -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
805
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:06:00 -
[318] - Quote
Come. Give me all your assets and enter my game.
There I will abuse you for 100hrs if necessary with a unending demands that amuse my sadism, until you leave, and I win. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
805
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:08:00 -
[319] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:pretty sure we've established that it wasn't torture. Have you read the post linked in my sig?
I encourage you to do so. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
805
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:10:00 -
[320] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:It's not torture. Have you read the post linked in my sig?
I would encourage you to do so. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |
|

Salvos Rhoska
805
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:13:00 -
[321] - Quote
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:So, if a gate camp scrams a player and the ransom is *ten* songs on TS, is that torture? You misunderstand how the Bonus Room functions.
It is not ten songs. It is an unending line of arbitrary demands, any of which if you refuse to perform or choose to leave the Bonus Room, Erotica1 wins.
There is no actual way to win, unless you are an associate of Erotica1 and are running through the Bonus Room for purposes of creating a theater so that he can maintain the false legitimacy that anyone can ever (legitimately) win the Bonus Room.
Ive important that you understand the difference. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
805
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:15:00 -
[322] - Quote
Oooh! I like it when you call me "Sir"!
Do it again! -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
808
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:17:00 -
[323] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:[What happens in the TS is under EULA
Your words. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
808
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:20:00 -
[324] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Xuixien wrote:[What happens in the TS is under EULA Your words. Redditor detected.
Sorry, I forgot to specify.
They are his words in the voice comms he is claiming to paraphrase my words from. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
808
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:24:00 -
[325] - Quote
Are you the Bonus Room escrow agent responsible for the twitch channel associated with the room, named "Kristallnacht"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
808
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:26:00 -
[326] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:Amnesty International's definition does not include "psychological pain" in their definition.
It does not include the specific wording of "physical pain" either.
That is because it is already established and recognised in law that the term pain includes all forms of pain.
If it is necessary to define a specific form of pain, it is specifically worded as such. In other cases, the term covers all forms of pain. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
808
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:28:00 -
[327] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Burn the redditor! I am 4channer.
Filthy peasant I am, I know. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
808
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:30:00 -
[328] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Most clients have fun, laugh, and are generally good sports. Prove it.
Xuixien wrote:Those never get publicized "Look at how much fun Erotica 1 is making for everyone." Why not. Publicise them now then.
Xuixien wrote:Only the bad ones, where the client becomes abusive, are posted, and everyone says "Look how much Erotica 1 is abusing people!" Yes, thanks for those. Nice to have evidence. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
808
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:32:00 -
[329] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:But Ripard wrote that it was torture. Have you read the post linked in my sig?
I would encourage you to do so. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
809
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:35:00 -
[330] - Quote
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:Gate campers aren't required to honor whatever ransom they demand, either. They can demand whatever the eff they want and assure the victim they can "win" by playing along. Bonus room contestants can just realize they've been scammed and walk away that much the wiser at any time, just like a gate camp victim can either self destruct or just say eff it and let the pirates blow him up.
I agree with your assesment, and I am aware of the significance of this to people who genuinely have no intent to cause suffering to other players outside the game.
But Erotica1's activities go well above and beyond that. This is a systematic activity, financed and supported by a group of sadists who enjoy listening to the suffering of others, as produced by the abuse and, yes, torture, that the victims are subjected to until they leave.
The thing is, there is no actual profit in the Bonus Room. They already hold all of the victims assets (and that is legit, nothing wrong with that). This is even confirmed by checking APIs against what the player hands over. Every single last cent is transferred.
The subsequent Bonus Room event, however, provides no profit to the perpetrators. All it provides, is a venue to abuse and torture someone, for purposes of fapping to their suffering.
TLDR: Erotica1's extreme conduct in regard to this, has ruined it for everyone else having an innocent, ambivalent and often unilateral laugh with the someone who sings for their ship. As is evidenced in the recording, this goes WAAAYY beyond that. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |
|

Salvos Rhoska
809
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:40:00 -
[331] - Quote
Capt Starfox wrote:You scammed me out of my time, cost me isk that I could have been making in-game, I feel a little humiliated believing you, and so on. We could even go so far as to compare this to torture... I mean if we wanted to nitpick it that is.
Me sorry :,,,,( -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
809
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:41:00 -
[332] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:"CSM Erotica 1" Do it. I double dare you. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
811
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:54:00 -
[333] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:[Wow, forum stalk much? Speaking of which. Where you ever involved in making Coh1 youtube vids? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
811
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:55:00 -
[334] - Quote
embrel wrote:Makes me wonder: what would Judge Dredd do? Shoot everyone and arrest them later. Questioning optional. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
811
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 20:02:00 -
[335] - Quote
Just for everyone's information that didn't already know it, the poster above is one of Erotica1's escrow agents, and also runs a twitch channel for distribution of video/audio on the Bonus Room. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
814
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 20:18:00 -
[336] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:It is important that you understand that taking part in an unwinnable game doesn't mean you're being tortured
Then what is the point of the unwinnable game? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
814
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 20:23:00 -
[337] - Quote
Then what is the point of the unwinnable game? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
815
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 20:27:00 -
[338] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:you've never been to a carnival have you? Aaah! Nice try at non-sequitor! I'll bite.
They already have his assets before the Bonus Room begins.
There is not one single further space cent to be squeezed out of him during the Bonus Room.
So I ask again:
What is the point of the unwinnable game? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
815
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 20:35:00 -
[339] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote: And that is where you are wrong. The Bonus Room begins the moment the client enters the Glory Hole. Asset contracting is technically the second phase of the BR. Isk doubling is the first. Facts!!!!!!!! Yay!!!!!!!! \o/ You're welcome. 
Glory Hole? Lolwat.
Yeah, good luck explaining this to CCP when they hopefully ask for an explanation of what exactly you've been up to for purposes of auditing what you've been using their service to do. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
815
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 20:40:00 -
[340] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:there have been winners of the Bonus Round.
What exactly is required of a non-affiliated participant in order to win? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |
|

Salvos Rhoska
815
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 20:42:00 -
[341] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:I find it hard to sympathise with them, it's also why I have no reservations about making fun of them.
I think the actual reasons for why you find it hard to sympathise, and have no reservations about making fun of them, are rather different than you think. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 20:45:00 -
[342] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:You could say... it's immaterial.
I'd say its quite material, when it is the mechanism employed against the victim in order to force them out of the Bonus Room, in order to win it. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 20:47:00 -
[343] - Quote
Berendas wrote:An increase in traffic for his tabloid of a blog. Is that illegal? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 20:48:00 -
[344] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:So if a manager at mcdonalds molests a child, mcdonalds is held responsible as a molester-based business? Yes, if they knew he was molesting kids. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 20:52:00 -
[345] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:scammer....reputation.
Pick one. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 20:54:00 -
[346] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:confirming macdonalds best seller is underage children.
They sell underage children?!?! -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 20:58:00 -
[347] - Quote
Helena Russell Makanen wrote:he 'forgot' to update his passport lol!
Or maybe going anywhere near an official government office that requires proof of identity would be "bad". -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:03:00 -
[348] - Quote
So you admit Bonus Round is unwinnable?
But that makes you a liar for having said that people have won it. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:04:00 -
[349] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:showing faith
How do you show faith for purposes of winning the Bonus Round? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:20:00 -
[350] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Don't lie. You and I both know these scams are targeted at bored bittervets.
You still get all his assets though, if they are stupid/dumb enough to comply. And I applaud you for that. Gf.
But why the whole Bonus Room thing thereafter? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |
|

Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:31:00 -
[351] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:because if they're not going to get a bonus room, why would they give you their stuff?
Why go to a bonus room after they give you their stuff? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:32:00 -
[352] - Quote
Did you answer my earlier question somewhere I missed btw?
That what exactly constitutes showing "faith" for purposes of winning the Bonus Room? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:34:00 -
[353] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:have you ever tried slamming a revolving door?
there are things that are impossible, that is one of them.
Proof is possible -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:34:00 -
[354] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:so they can win it back, plus a bonus. clue is in the name.
And how exactly do they win it back? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:37:00 -
[355] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:by completing the bonus room.
And how do they complete the bonus room? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:40:00 -
[356] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:By this point my head is spinning
Perhaps because you forgot to wear your protective tinfoil. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:41:00 -
[357] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Dave Stark wrote:by completing the bonus room. And how do they complete the bonus room? why are you asking me? i don't run bonus rooms.
Cos nobody seems to be able to answer it. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:47:00 -
[358] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Salvos was on BU commes the other night and it was explained to him, step by step, in detail, how the Bonus Room works and what the conditions for winning are. He was even given the names of at least two contestants who has won.
False.
Nobody there answered what is required of the participant to win the Bonus Room.
And you only named one "contestant" who has won, Vicious Rage.
I take notes :) A lot of notes.
So, since you claim to know, as you claim to have explained it in the comm (though you did infact not):
What is required of the participant to win the Bonus Room? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:49:00 -
[359] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:I'm not Erotica 1. I'm sure you're familiar with his voice from the recording, yes?
You're free to talk to me on comms at any point.
I can confirm that Xuixien is not Erotica1 on the same basis as he has confirmed that I am not Sohkar. We spoke in comms. Voices don't match. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 22:20:00 -
[360] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:Especially when you imply that a victim of torture "wins" by sticking around and enduring the torture Wat.
Where exactly have I implied any such thing. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |
|

Salvos Rhoska
819
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 22:36:00 -
[361] - Quote
Danalee wrote:What do you think? Transfer all your ingame assets to me, and come join me in my Special Basement.
I'll tell you everything you want to know there. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
819
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 22:38:00 -
[362] - Quote
Cha'ka Khan wrote:I was there. It WAS explained to you. False. It was not. You're the dopey guy from the comm, right?
So tell us then, what is required of the participant to win the Bonus Room? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
819
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 22:42:00 -
[363] - Quote
I'm sorry, but I have to ask.
Are you actually even 18? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
819
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 22:44:00 -
[364] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:To show complete faith
Ok.
How is it exactly that the "client" can show "complete faith" for purposes of winning? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
819
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 22:55:00 -
[365] - Quote
Ok.
What is the correct answer in order to win, to the following question:
"What if this was all just some sort of elaborate scam, what would you do next?" -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
819
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 22:58:00 -
[366] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:It's like you're trying really really hard to establish that the sole purpose of the BR is solely to entertain the people running it.
I'm just asking some simple questions. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
819
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 23:05:00 -
[367] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:There's no correct answer, it's hypothetical. There's no secret method. All you have to do is follow the rules.
Yeah. What a load of bull****.
As I expected. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
820
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 23:21:00 -
[368] - Quote
Apparently in every Bonus Room the following question is asked as part of the required tasks:
"What if this was all just some sort of elaborate scam, what would you do next?"
So far Kristalll, Riot Girl, Scipio Artelius, Danalee, Xuixien have all been UNABLE to provide the correct answer for this.
If these people, many of which whom are very associated with the Bonus Room, cannot even provide the correct answer, then its not really likely that some random participant they sucker up the victim selection process is going to be able to either, is it. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
820
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 23:27:00 -
[369] - Quote
Effect One wrote:you may source your own legal definitions.
I have sourced it.
The post that is linked in my sig is written on the definition provided therein.
@ Xuixien: You scared you might lose your ISK income from this? No more fapfap to listening to peoples suffering? Getting a little desperate? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
820
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 23:34:00 -
[370] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:-----
None of you have provided the correct answer to that question, which is required to fulfill that task of the Bonus Room.
If you, people who are intimately involved in deriving profit as well as fapping to the suffering of the victims involved, dont know the correct answer required that fulfills that task of the Bonus Room, then its not likely that a random non-affiliated victim is going to be able to provide a correct answer that fulfills the requirements of that task of the Bonus Room, is it.
This is all such tard stuff.
Is this "unanswerable" question somehow related to the fact that "true faith" is not something that anyone can show, because it is not a real quantity or quality that you can pull out of your pocket and "show" or something insanely stupid like that? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |
|

Salvos Rhoska
820
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 23:40:00 -
[371] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote: As I said before, the only requirements are that you follow the rules.
Where can I read these rules? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
820
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 23:55:00 -
[372] - Quote
Most of the people defending this, profit from what goes on in the Bonus Room, either in ISK or because they enjoy the recordings.
Some few others are concerned of the slippery slope effects to action.
The massive remainder of unassociated posters are against it (for various reasons). -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
820
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 00:03:00 -
[373] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Xuixien wrote:How many times are you going to answer his question before you realize that he'll never accept your answer because it doesn't fit his agenda? How should I answer it so it fits his agenda? You have to say "The correct answer is ______." so that he can then ask you "Where is that written so I can look it up?" and then let him lead you on and on to the insinuation he wants to create.
Oh, sounds like you are worried that Im getting closer to nailing you on this.
Trying to stop people leaking evidence that the Bonus Room is infact not winnable by following an objective set of rules.
No, you know the Bonus Room is just a means to torment victims for your pleasure. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
820
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 00:14:00 -
[374] - Quote
This is good.
The more awareness there is about what Erotica1 and his associates have done, the better the community can regulate itself as well as express their opinion on the matter. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
820
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 00:20:00 -
[375] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Such as wishing physical harm on Erotica 1? Or are you over that phase of the temper tantrum?
I have never and do not wish physical harm on Erotica1 :)
I state that here and now, unequivocably, sincerely. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
820
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 00:26:00 -
[376] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:[We went over this yesterday before you left the forum in a huff. Remember you were going to tattletale on me, then never posted again?
Yes, we did. And none of them say that I wish bodily harm on Erotica1 :)
Shall we discuss your libel against an elected CSM?
Or would you prefer to discuss that there is infact no objective way to win the Bonus Round and that its only purpose is to elicit suffering from the victims so listeners can fap? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
821
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 00:34:00 -
[377] - Quote
The more awareness the community at large has of what Erotica1 and his associates have been up to, the better.
Disregarding for a second what happened to the victims, we are all actually victims of what this small group has been up to.
Because they have taken their activities to sucha ridiculous and heinous degree, that it actually threatens the privilege uptil now of other players having someone sing for their ship for example.
These guys made them 10-20!
There is a limit to what any community can tolerate. Even /b/ and SA have their limits. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
822
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 00:45:00 -
[378] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Xuixien wrote:Besides OP and any CSM or CCP representative, is there anyone in this thread who has only posted once? Possibly, but probably a lot with just a couple of posts. With some posters approaching almost 400 posts and the average per poster being about 14 per author, there must be a large number that have many fewer than 14 posts: http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/332182-1
Of the top ten, the majority are persons with interests in Erotica1s Bonus Room, either in ISK or for the recordings. I think that is telling of the amount of damage control they are running throughout this thread. That small group is putting enormous effort into derailing and slapping down independant posters.
I am a notable exception to that. My motivation is I find their actions to be arguably illegal, and I wont stand by while people are subjected to this kind of thing without doing something about it. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
822
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 00:52:00 -
[379] - Quote
Korhaka Mirunas wrote:Isn't it rather fair for people connected to Erotica to be common posters, what with it being about them?
Its a small amount of vested individuals running a huge amount of damage control and interference vs a much larger dissenting population. If there where not so many people against what is happening in the Bonus Room, that wouldnt be necessary.
Guess they are pooping their pants, and rightly so. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
822
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 00:56:00 -
[380] - Quote
Its a small amount of vested individuals running a huge amount of damage control and interference vs a much larger dissenting population. If there where not so many people against what is happening in the Bonus Room, that wouldnt be necessary -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |
|

Salvos Rhoska
822
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 00:57:00 -
[381] - Quote
Cha'ka Khan wrote:DUDE!!!!!!!!! HOW MUCH CRACK DO YOU SMOKE? There is NO issue here. dude lost his **** being stupid. GET THE **** OVER IT ALREADY!!!!!!! Dopeys getting mad.
Dont smash your desk, now. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
822
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 01:01:00 -
[382] - Quote
Chibs Telford wrote:Xuixien wrote:Chibs Telford wrote:~snip~ It's not torture because it fits no actual definition of torture. tor-+ture [tawr-cher] noun 1. the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty. 2. a method of inflicting such pain. 3. Often, tortures. the pain or suffering caused or undergone. 4. extreme anguish of body or mind; agony. 5. a cause of severe pain or anguish. I call your attention to numbers 2, 4 and 5
I add to this the definition of torture formulated by Amnesty International, and the implications of which as applied to Erotica1s activities in the Bonus Room are linked in my sig. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
823
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 01:05:00 -
[383] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:[So really, the people posting in this thread don't even represent 0.5% of the EVE population.
Yes. A tiny representation. Just imagine how many more disprove of what you are doing in Bonus Room.
The more people know about what youve been up to, the more will express their condemnation of it, and thats quite an accomplishment in as hardened a community as this.
This is already to my knowledge the fastest growing and largest thread this board has ever seen.
And who are in the top posters? Me, vs you and your associates who are invested in Erotica1s activities, and 1-2 neutrals.
If you have to run as much damage control and interception as you poor guys are, you know you are in the ****** end of the stick. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
823
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 01:09:00 -
[384] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:How much do you have invested in this?
Only my opinion. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
823
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 01:15:00 -
[385] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Chibs Telford wrote:How much is too much. Ask yourself, how far does it have to go before something should be done? The game is open for 13 and up. What if it were a child? What if that child snapped and killed himself? Would you finally find your conscience then? This thread is big enough just dealing with the "what is" let alone dealing also with the "what if". However from my own perspective, if we were dealing with something different, then the discussion would also be different, as would the divide of people.
Well, lets just wait around till Erotica1 and associates do this to a 13yr old then, shall we? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
825
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 01:19:00 -
[386] - Quote
Korhaka Mirunas wrote:0.2% of players have posted here - which I would agree is an achievement to get so many, it doesn't necessarily represent the community as a whole. Im quite confident most EVE players would agree Erotica1 and associates took this too far.
You can disagree with that speculation, but it is what I think. I also think the more people hear about this, the better. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
825
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 01:21:00 -
[387] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:Out of curiousity, if we added a disclaimer that said: *If you are unable to control your ****, and act like a sane, composed human being, you must disclose such and forfeit your isk that led to your Bonus Round victory. Have a nice day!!! Would this work? 
A good point was raised earlier.
Nothing stopped you from leaving the comm.
Hows that for a disclaimer. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
825
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 01:30:00 -
[388] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:How do you account for the people who win the Bonus Round?
HAHAHAHAHA
Thats funny, when you havent yet accounted for how EXACTLY someone even can win the Bonus Round.
Ill tell you how I account for people having won the bonus round: -They are Erotica1s associates.
They are theater. False examples. Enacted for the sole purpose of creating the lie, that anyone can win the Bonus Round. Just like that farce Erotica1 is running in twitch as damage control and means to transfer assets to associates before possible bam or asset freeze.
I told you this in comms already. Your whole setup is fking amateurish and full of holes.
-----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
825
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 01:33:00 -
[389] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:Sadly, I wasn't online for this bonus round. Only logged on at the end while sohkar was still spewing his hatred on everyone in the in-game client. Pretty sure they can check my login's against logs on that as well, lmao.]
Nothing and no one was forcing any of you to be there. You could have left at any time. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
825
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 01:43:00 -
[390] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote: Why should they give away the secrets to the game.
In order for there to be a secret, there would have to be way to win it of which to be secret about in the first place. There isnt.
It cannot be won by anyone who Erotica1 does not chose to win it.
Its a farce.
And all of that would have been fine, except for the insane (I mean that literally) extents him and his associates have taken this to satiate their thirst for the suffering of others. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |
|

Salvos Rhoska
825
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 01:49:00 -
[391] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:And Vicious Rage.
But he doesn't count because he became "an affiliate" afterwards.
OH HOW CONVENIENT -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
825
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 01:52:00 -
[392] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:[Sure there is. You simply must have faith in the code and not let greed rob you of that faith.
Stay in the light and the blessing of St Olga of Kiev will be upon you.
Explaim that to a CCP audit. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
826
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 01:56:00 -
[393] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:[ Well that settles it: Salvos is a psychopath.
Got any proof? No? :)
Getting pretty desperate there Xui. . By means of reciprocation, tell me, do the Bonus Room recordings stimulate you sexually? Do you find it difficult to achieve erection without them? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
826
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 02:05:00 -
[394] - Quote
Cha'ka Khan wrote:Tor Norman wrote:Cha'ka Khan wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Cha'ka Khan wrote:DUDE!!!!!!!!! HOW MUCH CRACK DO YOU SMOKE? There is NO issue here. dude lost his **** being stupid. GET THE **** OVER IT ALREADY!!!!!!! Dopeys getting mad. Dont smash your desk, now. I am not mad. Just extremely disappointed in the supreme stupidity of yourself and the people that are blindly listening to you. He's trolling you and he's succeeding. Check the little yellow triangle next to his name and then click "hide posts". Your sanity will thank you for it. Yeah I know he is.... 
Poor Dopey. Always the last to catch on. No doubt your associates mock you behind your back and will awox you oncenyouve finally got something worth taking. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
826
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 02:11:00 -
[395] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
I feel that Cha'ka is being victimized here.
Well you gotta understand that nobody is forcing him to be here. He can leave at any time, you know.
Havent you heard? Its the newest in thing! -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
827
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 02:15:00 -
[396] - Quote
Lin Suizei wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
I feel that Cha'ka is being victimized here.
Well you gotta understand that nobody is forcing him to be here. He can leave at any time, you know. Havent you heard? Its the newest in thing in EVE! Hi please stop torturing Cha'ka with your emotional abuse and name-calling, which has no in-game benefit for you, thanks.
Nonononono. NO.
Its your own fault for staying. You can leave at any time, you knownthat right?
U r blame! -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
838
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 10:20:00 -
[397] - Quote
Is there a recording somewhere of this second encounter between Erotica1 and Sohkar?
Link please. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
838
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 10:26:00 -
[398] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:E1! While everyone is asking questions at once..!
What is best in life?
sex is pretty awesome.
Wrong answer. You failed the GD Bonus Room. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
839
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 10:49:00 -
[399] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:As stated before, You know that holding peoples ship or assets ransom in exchange for public humiliation (ie, singing songs and making a general ass out of yourself) isnt anything exactly new to eve...
Yes.
But most agree this Bonus Room nonsense goes too far. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
839
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 10:57:00 -
[400] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Please define 'most' and provide researched statistics to support up this assertion. Just about everyone who isn't directly profiting from the activities involved, either in the form of ISK or enjoying the recordings. You are the only ones defending this.
Even those who are concerned about slippery slope consequences of intervention, don't actually approve of what is happening in the Bonus Room.
The post history of this thread evidences that by means of the statistics of poster counts. The top posters are all associated with Erotica1 and profit from this activity. I am the only exception in that list.
The rest is independant posters, most of who have expressed they find what happens in the Bonus Room goes too far. Thats why you and others profiting from the activity constitute the rest of the posts, because you are forced to run daft amounts of damage control and interference.
You know this, I know this, everyone knows this. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |
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Salvos Rhoska
839
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Posted - 2014.03.28 11:05:00 -
[401] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:hi there. Hi! Hows it going? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
839
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Posted - 2014.03.28 11:10:00 -
[402] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Mandarine, the answer has already been provided above.
No one was telling a lie.
I don't find their posting profile to be similar at all.
Do you have any evidence to support this?
Or is this just the kind of annoying interference you have been running throughout this thread under the pretence of not actually profiting from Erotica1's Bonus Room activities?
Cos thats what you've been doing. Misrepresenting quotes and trying to find some contrived nit to pick at to remove the poster into a derailing venture. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
839
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Posted - 2014.03.28 11:11:00 -
[403] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:hi there. Hi! Hows it going? ...calm down. its a game, remember?
I'm calm :)
Plenty of coffee and smokes, and ready for a brand new beautiful day! -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
839
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Posted - 2014.03.28 11:13:00 -
[404] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:But if you actually took the time to actually read the posts you would know that now, Would you?
I did take the time to read your posts. And I have addressed you directly.
If you took the time to read the posts you would see that the one you quote is not addressed to you, so there is no reason for you to imply that it is, unless you accidentally cross-posted on an alt. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
839
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Posted - 2014.03.28 11:20:00 -
[405] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:On the aspect of Kobol being Mandarine, I have already posted on several occasions in this thread that it is a strong suspicion I have, not an absolute knowledge because that could only be confirmed by CCP.
I don't see any indication of that, and I've engaged with Mandarine in many threads as well as the evemail trash he has sent me. Mandarine's MO is he comes right at you with claims you have a mental disorder of some type, in almost every post he makes, with huge overt claims about you being an immoral and "bad" person. I haven't seen Kobol do anything like that, to any degree anywhere near Mandarine doing it in almost every single post he makes.
But yeah, opinions. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
839
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Posted - 2014.03.28 11:26:00 -
[406] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Is the TEAMSPEAK BONUS ROOM of Erotica 1 any official EVE online channel? Do you really think you are deceiving anybody here?
Trying to claim that a TS room is a unique space with no legal, moral, EULA/TOS or interpersonal/social consequences or responsibility is a fallacy.
I know some people like to think that they have their own protective bubble there where nobody can get at them and they can do anything and everything that enters their heads., but it ain't so, bro. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
839
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Posted - 2014.03.28 11:36:00 -
[407] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:God
Hmm? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
839
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Posted - 2014.03.28 11:42:00 -
[408] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Meanwhile, you've been advocating real life violence against users for their conduct in (or related to) a video game.
Nope :)
But seriously, TS is not some magical removed from the world lawless wild west where you can do anything your sadistic little heart requires. All action carries responsibility and consequences.
Ask a guy to sing for his ship? Fine. 2-6hrs of it? Wtf is wrong with you?
And btw, if you don't like any of this, you are free to leave at any time :) Nobody is forcing you to stay, right? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
841
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Posted - 2014.03.28 11:48:00 -
[409] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:It wasn't 2-6 hours. Sohkar incident just over 2hrs.
I read here somewhere from an associate of Bonus Room that there have been events that have run up to 6hrs. I can't corroborate it. If I read or understood that wrong, then I defer to whatever those who know say is the max hours one of these has ever lasted.
(Erotica1's self-participation as a "client" has to my knowledge, exceeded 2hrs already, 5+ atm I think, though I was referring to events held for "clients" that are un-affiliated with the group itself, not his recent theater.). -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
841
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Posted - 2014.03.28 11:51:00 -
[410] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:So have you, an officer of the court, reported this incident that constitutes torture to the authorities yet?
I have not claimed to be an officer of any court. I have forwarded my view, as outlined in the post linked in my sig, to some authorities though, yes. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |
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Salvos Rhoska
841
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Posted - 2014.03.28 11:52:00 -
[411] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote: But seriously, TS is not some magical removed from the world lawless wild west where you can do anything your sadistic little heart requires. All action carries responsibility and consequences.
Oh but it is. Eve doubly so my brother And I choose to disagree regarding consequences
See, thats exactly what I mean. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
841
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Posted - 2014.03.28 11:55:00 -
[412] - Quote
Anomaly One wrote:how many have resubbed just to be able to post on the forums ? lmfao Probably atleast all 50 of his alts. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
841
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Posted - 2014.03.28 11:56:00 -
[413] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:TLDR
Go ahead and leave if you don't like it :)
Nobody is stopping you. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
842
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:16:00 -
[414] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:And as someone who used to work for such an authority I can tell you what happens next. You read the claims - then you groan and curse the person for filing such crap, because you have enough serious work to do ... like catching the bad guys and bringing them to jail for example (and by this I mean tons of paperwork). Then you put a reference number on it - because you have to - check if there's reasonable suspicion - in this case obviously not - and put it in the files. And usually you have too much to do, so you ignore that the initial claim might qualify for reasonable suspicion with regard to malicious prosecution. But usually isn't always and if there's someone who is persistant in his false claims you might do something about it.
Entirely correct. Its called "due process". -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
842
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:25:00 -
[415] - Quote
Here's an alternative way to context this, since some have difficulty distinguishing where EVE ends and the outside world begins:
Think of the entirety of the EVE player population existing under one universal umbrella Corp/Alliance/Coalition called "Everyone".
A significant proportion of these players don't like what you are doing as a member of their/this Corp, which constitutes the entirety of the game.
By expressing their opinion, and taking various forms of actions that are open to them, they are effectively trying to AWOX you out of the Corp.
You can still be who you are, still play how you want, but you can go do it instead in another "Everyone" Corp, in another game and be their problem instead. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
842
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:31:00 -
[416] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:But what if their objection is the very reason I LIKE doing it here?
And they have no power to extract me as I neverdock? And I dont care about losing a ship?
That actually goes to a pretty interesting and imo constructive and relevant side-line for this discussion to ultimately take.
Namely that of improving the game and its meta, to the ends of making it effectively possible for people to more directly take action against other players INGAME, rather than having to resort to this kind of indirect social awoxing to ostracise people they don't like out of the game itself, because they have no direct capacity ingame (owing to the systems resctrictions) to do anything about it.
There have been a couple posters who have suggested something to this effect, and now I wish I had bookmarked them so I could reference them here. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
842
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:41:00 -
[417] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Would you still support a mechanism for ejecting those the majority of the game found unacceptable?
I added a few lines to my previous post, just to elaborate a bit, if you care to review them.
Thats a tough question you ask. Considering the analogy of the entirety of EVE comprising a Corp, in which the majority wants a member gone, then yes, I would support the mechanism. Though it is then up to the people who can actually "push the button" to enact it as to whether that actually happens. Doesn't discount the members right to express that that is what they want though. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
842
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:48:00 -
[418] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:By a "signifigant proportion" do you mean a majority? Or say, a third? (Im not sure what you changed, if you could repost the changes here that would help keep me clear on your point of view)
No changes iirc, just additional lines to articulate and elaborate on what was already there.
I don't know how to define "a significant proportion". I suppose that would depend on the perception of the actual entity with the power to enact what that proportion is lobbying for. In this case, it would constitute CCP as the one with the "buttan" (or translated as the Directors of this organisation) to do anything for, or against what a "significant proportion", depending on how THEY define that and perceive its significance, is expressing as their will as a part of that Corp/community. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |

Salvos Rhoska
842
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:56:00 -
[419] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:But would you be ok if CCP made its decisions based on customer opinion if that opinion was not coming from the majority?
Whether I would be ok with it or not, would depend entirely on whether I think the decision is good or not, from my personal perspective. Not on whether it is coming from a majority.
Wouldn't you? I mean lets not dance around the issue here. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |
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